MS. LAMP: Your Honor, the People call Laura Steenrod to the stand.
THE COURT: Stop and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you will give in this matter will be the truth, so help you God?
MS. STEENROD: I do.
THE COURT: Come on up. Watch your step on coming up. The chair is on rollers, so be careful. The microphone isn’t going to make you any louder, so make sure you speak up loudly and distinctly for us.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Laura Steenrod.
THE COURT: Spell your last please.
THE WITNESS: S-t—e-e-n-r-o-d.
THE COURT: Thank you. Miss Lamp?
LAURA
STEENROD
Called at 3:17 p.m. by the People, sworn by the court, testified:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Miss Steenrod, what do you do for a living?
A.
I own an equestrian center on
Q. And when you say an equestrian center, could you define what that is please?
A. We board and train show jumpers.
Q. Okay. And how long have you done that?
A. Twenty years.
Q. Okay. As a business for twenty years?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. And in addition to your twenty years of experience on your horse farm, and are you personally like a hands on type, do you do stuff there at the farm?
A. Yeah, I do everything. I’m the hired help, the trainer, the owner, farm manager, stall cleaner.
Q. I was just going to ask you if you cleaned stalls. Okay.
A. Absolutely, every day. Except Christmas.
Q. Feed them water?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Does somebody else do it on Christmas?
A. No, we do.
Q. Okay. Anyways, how many years prior to that did you have any horse experience, if any?
A. I started riding at age six, started competing at age eight.
Q. Okay.
A. So I’ve been in the industry as a student until I was in my early twenties.
Q. Okay. And--
THE COURT: You’re probably going to have to ask her age to find out how long she’s been doing it then, won’t you, Miss Lamp? You got yourself into that corner.
MS. LAMP: I was skirting around that, Your Honor.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Miss Steenrod, how old are you now?
A. I’m forty-five.
THE COURT: Sorry about that, Miss Steenrod.
THE WITNESS: Oh, that’s okay.
THE COURT: Beats the alternative, doesn’t it?
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Based on the experience, the years of experience that you’ve had dealing with horses, have you also received any training? Either formally or informally.
A. Well, I have, I have been an assistant trainer under other trainers before I started my own business and have ridden under the direction of professional trainers my whole life.
Q. Okay.
A. Never, always in a boarding setting similar to what I run now.
MS. LAMP: Okay. Your Honor, I think based upon her testimony and I’m sure Mr. Dungan and Mr. Hurst will have questions, but I would move to qualify Miss Steenrod as an expert witness in the field of equestrian management. THE COURT: And equestrian management is relevant here on what basis, Miss Lamp?
THE WITNESS: Well, I think that that’s what Mr. Henderson and Mr. Mercier were attempting to do, is to manage a facility of horses.
THE COURT: Right.
MS. LAMP: And as I understand it, that’s what Miss Steenrod is doing currently. Though perhaps for different purposes. But I believe the horses would still require essentially the same types of basic care.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan, do you have questions?
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Mr. Hurst?
MR. HURST: Just a few.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION (At 3:20 p.m.)
BY MR. HURST:
Q.
Miss Steenrod, this equestrian center on
A. Yes, sir.
Q.
Okay. And how many horses are
kept at the equestrian center on
A. Nineteen.
Q. Nineteen. And what is the largest number of horses that have ever been kept at the equestrian center?
A. Nineteen.
Q. Okay. So does that mean that you must own all those horses?
A. No, sir. They’re owned by clients.
Q. And those clients board their horses at your equestrian center.
A. That’s correct.
Q. They also ride them over there?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Does that mean that those are primarily clients or people that want to own horses or have their children own horses, but need a place to keep them?
A. In a training setting, yes.
Q. Okay. Because they can’t keep them in the garage at their own house or something like that, they have to keep them in a facility like yours.
A. They choose to, yes.
Q. All right. And so the most amount of horses that have ever been out there at the equestrian center is nineteen.
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And are you involved in breeding those horses?
A. We have done breeding on a limited scale.
Q. And when you say limited scale, what do you mean by that?
A. We’ve had one to two brood mares on the property at a time.
Q. In twenty years?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And would you characterize an equestrian center as a herd management facility?
A. Of course. Any time you have livestock on a piece of property it would be herd management.
Q. And what is the difference between managing a herd of nineteen horses and managing a herd of sixty-nine horses?
A. Your overhead.
Q. There’s other expense, or other differences as well, are there not?
A. I would imagine time. Time and money.
Q. The amount of land that you have to have?
A. I would assume so, yes.
Q. Okay. The amount of time, the amount of money. Okay. So would the, managing nineteen horses be the same as managing sixty-nine horses?
A. Well, you would have the same responsibilities, just on a larger scale.
Q. And you have not managed more than nineteen horses.
A. Correct.
Q. And you mentioned that your horses are called jumpers?
A. They’re, that is the venue that they are used in, yes.
Q. What does jumpers mean?
A. They jump over jumps.
Q. Okay. And do--
A. It’s a type of sport horse.
Q. Okay. And were the horses located at the Turn Three Ranch, are they jumper horses?
A. No, they are not.
Q. Okay. So they’re not even the same kind of horses that are present at your equestrian center? Other than the fact that they have four legs.
A. Well, horses are horses. I guess they don’t, they don’t identify themselves specifically by what they do for a living. We identify them by what they do for a living.
Q. That’s correct. And you’ve identified the nineteen horses at your equestrian center as jumpers. Is that right?
A. That is the venue that they are used in.
Q. Okay. And jumper horses are in fact different than the horses that are kept at the Turn Three Ranch, correct?
A. How so?
Q. Well, I’m asking you.
A. I don’t believe so, no.
Q. Is there different kinds of recreational activities that they’re involved in?
A. Yes.
Q. For example, do jumper horses jump around a lot?
A. Yes.
Q. And aren’t they required to run around the equestrian center and leap or jump over obstacles?
A. Well, their training is different. Their care is essentially the same.
Q. And are the horses at the Turn Three Ranch involved in jumping activities?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Okay. In fact, are the horses at the Turn Three Ranch involved in what’s called barrel racing?
A. I have heard that.
Q. And what is barrel racing?
A. I do not know anything about barrel racing.
Q.
So even though you run an equestrian center on
A. I know what barrel racing is, but I wouldn’t step out and say that I understand the sport.
Q. Okay. And if these horses at the Turn Three Ranch are involved in barrel racing and you’re not involved in understanding that sport, then you don’t know an awful lot about barrel racing, do you?
A. About barrel racing, no.
MR. HURST: Okay. Your Honor, I would object to qualifying this witness as an, I guess as what the prosecutor called an equestrian expert. I believe that she could be qualified as a person who is knowledgeable about nineteen horses that are jumpers on Henry Road, but I do not believe that she’s qualified to testify as an equestrian expert as has been set forth by the prosecuting attorney.
MR. DUNGAN: Your Honor, before you rule, his questions lead me to want to ask some questions as well.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. DUNGAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION (At 3:25 p.m.)
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. Mrs. Steenrod, did I hear you correctly that you do not own any of these nineteen horses?
A. Yes, I do own horses on the property, yes.
Q. You—-
A. I don’t own all the horses. He asked me if I owned all the horses on the property. I do not own all the horses on the property.
Q. How many of the nineteen horses belong to other people?
A. Fourteen. No, I’m sorry. Sixteen.
Q. All right. So sixteen of your nineteen horses belong to other people.
A. Are client owned horses, yes.
Q. And does that mean they belong to other people?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You own three.
A. I do.
Q. All right. The individuals who own the other sixteen horses are paying you to keep the horses there.
A. That’s correct.
Q. They have certain standards or expectations of how their horses are going to be cared for?
A. I would assume so, yes.
Q. I mean, you’re offering your services.
A. Well, you’re asking me what they think. I guess I’m telling you I would assume they have a standard, yes.
Q. Sometimes they tell you what their standards, how they want their horses cared for, don’t they?
A. I would have to answer no.
Q. Okay. So a client’s never said here’s how I want you to care for my horse.
A. No.
Q. All right. Do you tell these clients how you are going to care for their horses?
A. We explain our boarding operation to them when they come into the business, yes.
Q. All right. And because you are doing this for a living and boarding other people’s houses(sic), I suspect your place looks real nice.
A. My place is clean and well kept, yes.
Q. All right. And that’s probably because you want it that way, right?
A. That is my standard, yes.
Q. That’s your standard, it’s a standard that you want for boarding your own horses, right?
A. Correct.
Q. And then you want a nice looking place because if I’m a customer or client that wants to board my horse at your place, if I see a rundown, shoddy operation, you’re probably not getting my business. Would you agree with that?
A. I don’t believe that I would run my facility any differently whether they were my privately owned horses or whether they were client owned horses on the property.
Q. Okay. But do you agree that it’s in your best interests as a business woman running this horse related operation to have a nice clean looking place for customers to see?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And these horses that you and Mr. Hurst were referring to as jumpers, those horses are put on display.
A. We compete with them, yes.
Q. Which means you go to shows.
A. Correct.
Q. And members of the public attend and watch those shows.
A. Correct.
Q. And other competitors check out each other’s horses, no doubt?
A. I would assume so.
Q. Well, you go to the shows, right?
A. Correct.
Q. You check out the other horses there?
A. I guess. I wouldn’t say that I check out the other horses there, I’m aware that there are other horses where I’m at.
Q. You look at them.
A. Yes.
Q. See what kind of condition they’re in?
A. Correct.
Q. All right. Everybody wants to present as good looking a horse as possible at those shows.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan, where are we going relative to her management testimony?
MR. DUNGAN: Well, I guess the point that I’m getting at, Your Honor, is it’s one thing if you got a fancy stable for fancy other people’s horses that go to fancy shows, and she’s no doubt real good at that and could testify about that. But that’s not the situation that we’re dealing with here. We got farm horses. These horses aren’t going to shows. They’re not going to be in front of the public, they’re not going to be jumping, they’re not going to be competing.
THE COURT: No one’s testified to that.
MR. DUNGAN: Huh?
THE COURT: No one’s testified to that. As far as I know a horse is a horse is a horse. What difference does it make if it’s a herd, it’s a herd. What’s a herd?
THE WITNESS: More than one horse would be considered a herd.
THE COURT: More than one.
MR. DUNGAN: But you would have different standards for how you were going to care for these horses. It’s like a show dog compared to a mutt in my back yard. You know, a show dog is going to get a certain standard of care and cleaning because he competes and goes out in the public compared to, you know, the mutt that sleeps in the doghouse in the back yard. You know.
THE COURT: Is that true?
THE WITNESS: I don’t believe you would manage either one any differently. I also have dogs.
THE COURT: You don’t. In terms of a herd you don’t manage it any different than, no matter what the horse is there for.
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: Are all of them jumpers?
THE WITNESS: A few of them are retired.
THE COURT: Retired horses?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: But you don’t-—
THE WITNESS: No. They receive the same care as the horses that go out and compete. But they never leave the farm.
THE COURT: I guess you’re establishing that she’s pretty good at herd management, Mr. Dungan, so I don’t know---
MR. DUNGAN: For a particular type of horse that’s involved in a particular type of activity. I mean, Your Honor--
THE COURT: I don’t know that-—
MR. DUNGAN: --if you look at a horse—-
THE WITNESS: She doesn’t seem to think there’s a difference.
MR. DUNGAN: If you look at a horse show on TV where they’re competing and we’ve got the nice shiny horses-—
THE COURT: I surf to those occasionally.
MR. DUNGAN: Huh?
THE COURT: I surf to those occasionally.
MR.
DUNGAN: Okay. As opposed to driving around
THE COURT: I don’t know.
MR. DUNGAN: Okay.
THE COURT: It’s the management aspect of it that I think’s significant. Whether you feed them and you let them run in the street and we have them with wires on their leg. I don’t think those, that’s the, if that’s the issue. What responsibilities do you have on a daily basis with your horses, Miss Steenrod?
THE WITNESS: We start the day with the morning feeding. Our horses are stalled at night so they’re kept in the barn in their own individual stall. So we feed them every morning between, you know, between five thirty and six. Our horses are turned out depending on the weather between eight and nine a.m. Then we clean the twenty stalls, or nineteen stalls that are on the property are cleaned. The horses are turned out. The water buckets are all individually dumped and wiped out and refilled and put back in the stalls. Each stall is rebedded with fresh bedding every day. Whatever repairs that we might have, if we have to go pick up hay or, you know, if we have grain that we have to go pick up, the horses are brought in, they’re fed what we call a hard feeding, a grain feeding at two thirty in the afternoon. Then they’re hayed again a large feeding between six and seven p.m.
THE
COURT: Do you talk to other people that
own horses, whether they’re jumpers or nonjumpers?
THE WITNESS: Oh, absolutely. I, I’ve had-—
THE COURT: Have you ever heard the term farm horse?
THE WITNESS: No, sir.
THE COURT: Okay. Were you at this farm that we’re talking about here?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE
COURT: What do you call that type of
horse?
THE WITNESS: Other than a horse that perhaps performs in
or competes in other venues, the basic, I don’t understand that there would be
a distinction in how they were cared for based on what they did.
THE
COURT: In terms of herd management?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: Do you talk with other people that own other different types of horses?
THE WITNESS: Oh, all the time. I get calls frequently.
THE
COURT: Do you guys have like conventions
or conferences?
THE WITNESS: No, sir.
THE COURT: Do you discuss with other horse owners or persons in a similar state of ownership of a center or a farm about their, those persons’ techniques and your techniques?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And have you taken some techniques from other people and applied them to your business?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Do you know if the reverse has happened, where someone takes your technique and applies it?
THE WITNESS: I believe so, yes.
THE COURT: Are the persons from whom you’re received techniques that you applied always jumper horses owners?
THE WITNESS: No, sir.
THE COURT: And the persons that have taken techniques from you, are they non jump horse people? If you know.
THE WITNESS: Yes. Most of them probably.
THE COURT: Well, I think Miss Steenrod is--
MR. HURST: Your Honor, if I may.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. HURST: I sense that perhaps the court is getting ready to rule. I guess the major concern that we had with regard to qualifying this witness is what’s known as an expert in equestrian management—-
THE COURT: No, I’m off that.
MR. HURST: Oh, okay. Is this--
THE COURT: I wasn’t going to do that, because that’s not relevant.
MR. HURST: Or qualifying her as a witness of any kind is basically the problem we have here.
THE COURT: Herd management though is, you know, I guess certainly subject to you gentlemen cross examining, but it seems like she manages a herd.
MR.
HURST: The point I’m trying to make is,
this is like the difference between having your kids raised on
THE
COURT: And I understand that, but I
don’t quite understand the analogy to
MR. HURST: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: --I’ll take this into consideration as far as weight, I’m going to, will allow the, would like to hear the testimony from Miss Steenrod on herd management and also the cross-examination as well. Miss Lamp?
MS. LAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED(At 3:36 p.m.)
BY MS. LAMP:
Q.
Miss Steenrod, did you have occasion to become involved with the Turn
Three Ranch located at
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. How did you come to get involved in what was going on there?
A. I was called by Officer Kim Luce from Jackson County Animal Control.
Q. And do you know why she contacted you?
A.
She told me that she had received information that I ran a horse operation
in
Q. And were you involved in any type of rescue at that time?
A. I have been a consultant for Leelanau Horse Rescue.
Q.
And as I understand it, is Leelanau Horse Rescue a rescue that formed as
a result of a neglect case in
A.
Correct. It is a 501C3 nonprofit
that is registered with the state of
Q. Okay. And you had consulted with them previously, but you were not a member of the rescue. Is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And at some point did you become a member of the rescue?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. When did that occur?
A. On March twenty-seventh, the day that I went out to the farm. I was in contact with the founder of Leelanau Horse Rescue enroute and she told me that after I had gone to the farm and seen what the situation was, to get in contact with her and if she thought that we needed to lend assistance or the rescue needed to lend assistance that they would do so immediately and I could act on their behalf.
Q. Okay. And had you gone there, is that the first time you had gone there was on the twenty-seventh of March?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Okay. And did you go there with anybody else?
A. My mother.
Q. Okay. And what if anything did you observe upon arriving there the first time?
A. Kind of just a, it was just kind of an overwhelming situation. I wasn’t, I was, that’s the first time I’ve seen a horse operation that, that looked like that, so it, it, you know, took me a while just to kind of stand there and take it in.
Q. When you say looked like that, what do you mean?
A. Normally horse operations are designed for the safety of the animals that are kept there and I was surprised at the amount of debris and things that were, you know, at first not identifiable that, but that were out in the pasture with the horses, the, I guess I would describe kind of a rundown appearance of the property.
Q. Okay. And you had never seen a farm like that before?
A. No, I have not.
Q. Okay.
A. Not a horse farm, no.
Q. Not a horse farm. What other observations did you make?
A. I guess I noticed the shelters that were on the property or what I was told were shelters when I asked is this the shelter that’s provided for the animals that live here. Several thin, what appeared to me to be what I would call undernourished animals that were, had been put in what I would describe as a paddock setting up at the front of the property.
Q. Okay.
THE COURT: What’s a paddock setting?
THE WITNESS: A paddock is, there are two different types of turnouts for horses. A paddock would be considered a smaller dry lot area that did not offer grazing.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: As opposed to a field setting.
THE COURT: Oh, all right. Miss Lamp?
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Did you make any observations about the general conditions of the herd there at the farm?
A. Well, general observation was that they looked pretty rough.
Q. Okay. And could you describe what you mean by that?
A. Well, the horses that were in the paddock areas up front, several had exposed spines, exposed hips, exposed rib cages, a sunken appearance to the neck which gives them kind of an enlarged head or the look of an enlarged head. What I would describe as an emaciated condition, you know, several, and that was kind of a theme with the ones that I looked at that had been up front.
Q. Okay. And let me ask you. After coming there and having contact with the Leelanau Horse Rescue, did you ultimately end up becoming involved as a result of the observations that you made there on the farm on that day?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. And what if any involvement did you have in assisting Animal Control with the management of the herd and the farm there?
A. Well, we asked—-I approached Officer Luce and Officer Wheaton and told them that Leelanau Horse Rescue would be interested in assisting them financially and basically that they could take the lead and whatever it was that they needed from us, that we would be willing to do for them.
Q. Okay. And did you provide any services then or assistance?
A. Yes, ma’am, we did. We started out with just some general labor, some fence repair, cleaning out the indoor of the barn that was on the property, building stalls, as well as providing bedding. We rented a skid steer to clean out the interior of the barn because it wasn’t something you could do manually with a pitchfork and wheelbarrow which is how it’s normally done.
THE COURT: What’s a skid steer?
THE WITNESS: A skid steer is a very small front end loader that we could get into the barn around the posts that support, the support posts of the barn, so that, that was the only way that we felt that we could get the interior of the barn cleaned.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Miss Lamp?
THE WITNESS: We also—-do you want me to tell you everything that we’ve done or a general—-
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. A general overview.
A. Okay. We did hire a contractor to come in and reconstruct all of the shelters and to expand the largest shelter to make more accommodations for where the majority of the herd was kept. We also paid to have, purchased and also paid to have installed fencing, gates, new gates put in, you know, basically to bring the property up to where it was much easier to manage.
Q. Okay. And let me ask you. Did you feel that you were doing anything extravagant there or did you feel that this was just basic fundamental herd management?
A. I would say this is just basic, just basic farm management.
Q. Okay. And let me ask you. If you could describe some of the debris that you saw there in the areas, if you could identify whether it was in the barn or in the pasture there at the farm when you arrived on the twenty-seventh of March.
A. Okay. In the barn there was a lot of old hose, there was just a tremendous amount of feces I guess, several inches. You know, there was a lot of, it was hard to describe, most of it was mixed in with the manure, there was, you know, what ended up to be lead ropes, binder twine, outside there were pieces of sheet metal on the ground. There were a lot of wood, wire, several pieces of wire that I had personally picked up, wood, railroad ties, nails, just debris.
Q. Okay. And let me ask you, if I show you-—
MS. LAMP: And for the record, Your Honor, I’m showing these photographs to defense counsel, People’s proposed exhibit fourteen and fifteen.
THE COURT: Do you gentlemen have any objections to fourteen and fifteen?
MR. HURST: No, Your Honor.
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Fourteen and fifteen are admitted.
(At 3:45 p.m. PX 14,15 admitted)
MS. LAMP: Thank you.
MR. DUNGAN: I’m sorry, Your Honor, what were the numbers?
THE COURT: Fourteen, fifteen.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. I’m showing you two exhibits that have been admitted into evidence that are People’s exhibit fourteen and People’s exhibit fifteen. Can you identify first what is depicted in People’s exhibit fourteen?
A. Yes, ma’am. That’s the interior of the barn. I took this photo.
Q. Okay. And is that, is there a date ascribed to that photograph?
A. March twenty-ninth of 2007.
Q. Okay. And does that generally give you a fair and accurate depiction then of what you saw on the day that the photograph was taken?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. Did you take the photograph?
A. I did.
Q. Okay. And then People’s exhibit fifteen. What does that depict?
A. The same setting, the same interior of the barn after we had gone in and cleaned it out with a skid steer and built new stalls.
Q. Okay. And is that in your opinion in herd management what the interior of a barn ought to look like? On exhibit fifteen.
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And what about fourteen?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Okay.
THE COURT: Miss Steenrod, we have a before and after?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And what’s the date of your after on fifteen?
THE WITNESS: May twenty-first.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. I’m also going to show you what’s been marked as People’s proposed exhibit nine. I believe defense counsel’s already had the opportunity to view that yesterday.
THE COURT: Let me ask this. Miss Steenrod, with respect to picture fourteen, this is as you saw it on March twenty-ninth?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Do you know if anyone had done any work in this area before March twenty-ninth?
THE WITNESS: I do not.
THE COURT: Did you ask any of the Animal Control or other persons that, is there anything that’s been moved since the twentieth or March sixteenth or March fourteenth?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Who did you talk with?
THE WITNESS: Well, I talked with Officer Wheaton.
THE COURT: Did she indicate to you there had been any changes in that since she first saw it?
THE WITNESS: I believe the water tanks had been pulled out of another area to be used.
THE COURT: That’s the only change then.
THE WITNESS: I believe, to the best of my knowledge, yes.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Miss Lamp?
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Directing your attention to the exhibit marked as People’s proposed exhibit nine.
MS. LAMP: I don’t recall admitting this, so I’m going to call it proposed nine unless you have it-—
THE COURT: No, it’s not been.
MS. LAMP: Okay.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Can you, do you recognize what’s depicted in those six photographs there?
A. Yes, ma’am, I do.
Q. Okay. It looks like the top four are identified as being from four twelve of ’07 and the bottom two are of four twenty-four of ’07. Is that--
A. Yes.
Q. And what are depicted in the top four photographs from four twelve? If you could describe those.
THE COURT: Do you gentlemen have any objections to number nine?
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Nine’s admitted.
(At 3:48 p.m. PX 9 admitted)
THE WITNESS: It’s part of the herd up toward, I’m sorry I can’t give you the geographic direction, but off the end of the barn that’s part of the herd up in that area. And the two bottom pictures is that same area after we removed the debris that was in the field.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Okay. And to the best of your knowledge was that the debris that was located there, you know, when Animal Control came on to the farm?
A. Yes, ma’am, I believe it was.
Q. And that four twenty-four photograph is indicating what it looked like after you guys had cleaned it up. Is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. I’m going to show you what’s also been marked as People’s exhibit—-
THE COURT: Let me go back to nine a minute.
MS. LAMP: Sure.
THE COURT: The top for, did take these pictures?
THE WITNESS: No, sir.
THE COURT: Are you able to tell us the person that took the, is the photographer for the top four standing the same place as the photographer for the bottom two?
THE WITNESS: The bottom left would be almost an identical shot to the one directly overhead of it. If you look at the two large wooden—-
THE COURT: The left?
THE WITNESS: Bottom left and the middle left. You can see the two large posts that are sticking up.
MS. LAMP: Okay.
THE WITNESS: On each side. Yes, ma’am.
THE COURT: So those are the only two taken from the same location?
THE WITNESS: They’re all the same general location. I would say that those two would be the closest depiction of the ident-—almost standing at the same spot.
THE COURT: The bottom right however is from a different angle then, a different position?
THE WITNESS: Well, the bottom right shows what would be off to the left of the picture on the top left.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. LAMP: So over here?
THE WITNESS: Yeah. The little white, the white piece on the ground if you look, correct, would be, was there, down at the bottom of that fence row.
MS. LAMP: Is that the right, am I pointing to the right thing?
THE WITNESS: This is at the bottom of this fence row.
MS. LAMP: Oh, okay.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. DUNGAN: Your Honor, could you inquire also if the dates on the pictures are the dates that they’re actually taken?
THE COURT: Oh. If you know. I don’t know if you know.
THE WITNESS: To the best of my knowledge, yes.
THE COURT: April twelfth the top four?
MS. LAMP: And April twenty-fourth for the bottom two.
THE COURT: Twenty-four, bottom two. Okay. Thank you.
MS. LAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. I’m showing you now what’s been marked as People’s proposed exhibit twelve which depicts various shelters, eight of them to be exact. Do you recognize all the photographs there on that board, all eight of them?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Okay. And if I could draw your attention to the top left photograph marked four ten, can you tell me what that is depicting?
A. That is one of the shelters inside one of the paddocked areas.
Q. And was that as you found it there-—
THE COURT: Do you gentlemen have any objections to twelve?
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Twelve is admitted.
MS. LAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
(At 3:51 p.m. PX 12 admitted)
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Does that shelter depicted in the four twelve picture-—or four ten picture fairly and accurately depict the shelter as you saw it when you got there at the farm on or about the twenty-seventh or the tenth when it was taken?
A. Yes.
Q. I assume there were no major changes between the twenty-seventh and the tenth as to the shelter facilities as you observed them?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. The picture on the top right, what does that depict?
A. That is the same shelter after the contractors had come in and rebuilt it.
Q. Okay. And going down—-
THE COURT: When you say rebuild, it can’t be the same.
THE WITNESS: It’s not the same. It’s in the same general area.
THE COURT: Oh.
THE WITNESS: I mean, it is in the same, it is in the same area in the paddock. It was just reconstructed.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: And the back wall of the original shelter and the back wall of the new shelter is the same wall.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. And directing your attention to the photograph on the left below the first one, the second photograph down. What does that depict?
A. That is also a paddock that is in one, or a shelter that was in one of the paddock areas.
Q. And the photograph to the right, is that the after picture of, after it’s been reconstructed?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. How about the third picture down? What is that depicting?
A. That was a structure that was in the largest fenced area where the majority of the herd resided.
Q. Okay. And the picture to the right is an after picture. Is that correct of the-—
A. That’s correct.
Q. Okay. And the lower left picture, is that also a picture of the shelters as you observed them on or about the tenth of April?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And the picture to the right?
A. Reconstructed.
Q. Okay. So these are all essentially a before and after of the same structure in essentially the same location. Is that correct?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And the shelter as depicted on the left, is that an adequate shelter in your opinion as a herd manager that’s adequate for the shelter of the horses on this facility?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And why not?
A. Well, the first one is fall--getting ready to fall down it appears. I don’t think the structure is, looks, appears to be safe and they’re very small. The second structure had the same I believe safety issue. The third structure also had exposed steel edges. There is a piece of downed steel on the side of it, and I don’t know if I can say what you can’t see, but there’s holes in the roofs of that structure also so the rain would come directly through it, or snow. And the third shelter I would say also is a safety issue. It was wobbly to the touch, the middle section had already collapsed and so no, I mean it’s not something I would say would be safe.
Q. Okay. And you already testified about your responsibilities at your facility of caring for the stalls and stuff inside your barn. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you already testified as to what you think is the proper format to follow of cleaning it out every day, putting the bedding in and fresh food and water. Is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And cleaning it out includes I, as I understood, you removing the feces and urine.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And what if any observations or conclusions did you draw about the management of the herd at this facility when you observed the barn interior here?
A. That they didn’t do anything in the interior of the barn.
Q. Okay. And your group including yourself came in and cleaned up that barn?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And you said you rented a skid steer to come in and remove the debris?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And I also understand from your earlier testimony that that was not a normal type of farm management.
A. Not that I’m familiar with, no.
Q. Okay. And why is that?
A. I guess everybody I know cleans their stalls.
Q. Okay. And the skid steer, what did you have to use that for?
A. To remove manure and debris out of the interior of the barn.
Q. Miss Steenrod, based on your observations of the farm at Turn Three Ranch, what if any conclusions did you draw about the herd management that had been going on there?
A. I guess the conclusion I came to was that they didn’t like their horses very well.
Q. And why, what was that conclusion based upon? If you could just summarize what led you to that conclusion.
A. A lot of the body conditions that I saw, the general condition of the property, things that I would think would be a safety issue, the amount of, you know, just the lack of I guess the lack of care that you could see the property was, you know, not getting or that their environment was not getting.
MS. LAMP: Your Honor, I have one other photograph I’m going to show Miss Steenrod. I have a exhibit here marked as People’s proposed exhibit thirteen which depicts a grulla mare and I believe Miss Steenrod is familiar with that photograph, and if so, I’m going to inquire what the date of the photograph is, as it’s not listed on there.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Can you tell me what date or approximately what date that photograph was taken?
A. It was taken the same day as the inter-—the new photo of the new interior of the barn I believe.
Q. So on or about five twenty-one of ’07.
A. Correct.
THE COURT: Do you gentlemen have any objection to thirteen?
MR. HURST: No, Your Honor.
MR. DUNGAN: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Thirteen’s admitted.
(At 3:59 p.m. PX 13 admitted)
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. I’m showing you then People’s exhibit thirteen that’s been admitted into evidence, and what does that depict?
A. It’s a picture of two mares in one of the paddock enclosures.
Q. And there’s one mare that you can see much more prominently than the other, is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And which mare is that?
A. It’s a mare that has been dubbed with the name Mouse. It’s a four year old grulla mare.
Q. Okay. And have you had, did you have occasion to observe the grulla mare on or about the time that you came on to the farm on the twenty-seventh of March?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Okay. And that depicts a photograph on or about the twenty-first of May of this year. Is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And could you describe any change in condition?
A. Well, she’s carrying a lot more weight now than she was then.
Q. Okay.
THE COURT: That’s the only difference? Just more weight?
THE WITNESS: And she has begun to shed her winter hair.
MS. LAMP: Miss Steenrod, thank you. I don’t have any further questions.
THE COURT: These gentlemen have some questions for you, Miss Steenrod.
MR. HURST: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROS-EXAMINATION(at 4:00 p.m.)
BY MR. HURST:
Q. Miss Steenrod, has a horse ever bitten another horse while in your care?
A. Yes, they do bite each other.
Q. It’s not uncommon, is it?
A. I wouldn’t say it’s common either, but it does happen, yes.
THE COURT: So did it happen in your care that you’re--
THE WITNESS: Have I seen horses nip each other? It’s part of their socialization process too.
THE COURT: I mean I think what Mr. Hurst was asking, have they bit each other at your center? Not your general familiarity with horses, but actually, I think that’s what--
MR. HURST: I did. While under your care, horse supervision. At your equestrian center.
THE WITNESS: Do horses bite each other? Yes, they do.
THE COURT: No. At your center do they bite each other.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
MR. HURST: Thank you very much.
BY MR. HURST:
Q. And has a horse ever died while under your care?
A. It has been humanely euthanized. We have not had a horse die on our property.
Q. Okay. My question is, has a horse ever died while under your care. So I’ll rephrase that. Rather than use your words, let’s use the words of the question I’m asking. Has a horse ever passed away while under your care?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And please tell us the circumstances under which that happened.
A. We had an aged school horse who went into kidney failure, so he was humanely euthanized by the veterinarian after his assessment that the horse could not be saved.
Q. The only time that ever happened while under your care?
A. Is it the only time we’ve every euthanized a horse?
Q. Yes.
A. No, sir.
Q. And have there been other times?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many?
A. Two.
Q. And what were the circumstances of those?
A. Horses who had sustained usually inop-—both of them, the way, we would call a twisted gut which is an inoperable or possibly operable, but a life ending ailment.
Q. Okay, all right. And would severe degenerative arthritis be a condition for which a horse would be put down for example?
A. No, sir, I don’t believe so.
Q. You do not believe that would be appropriate?
A. It would depend on the horse.
Q. And Leelanau Horse Rescue. What kind of an organization is that?
A. A 501C3 nonprofit equine rescue.
Q. And you testified that you are a paid consultant for that organization. Is that correct?
A. I am not. I am a volunteer consultant for that organization.
Q. Are you a paid consultant for some other organization?
A. No, sir.
Q. Didn’t you testify just moments ago that you’re a paid consultant?
A. Not that I’m a paid consultant, that I have consulted with them on rescue horses.
Q. Okay. Are you being paid by Leelanau Horse Rescue for your activities or matters involved in this case?
A. No, sir.
Q. Okay. And are you planning to receive any of the horses which have been impounded?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you notified any of the Animal Control officers of your particular interest or members of your family in any of these horses?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you have any financial interest in these horses?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you have any financial interest in the outcome of these horses? Of this case.
A. Are you asking me personally or are you asking me as Leelanau Horse Rescue?
Q. In either case.
A. Well, Leelanau Horse Rescue does have a financial investment I mean, we--
Q. What is that financial investment?
A. We have provided a list of what our expenses have been to date.
Q. And who have you provided that list to?
A. Jennifer Lamp, Jackson County Animal Control.
Q. And about when was that done? That providing of list of expenses?
A. We have been providing a current list of expenses all along.
Q. So you’ve been running a cumulative total of the interest of Leelanau Horse Rescue in this particular case for the expenses that they have incurred and then provided that to Jennifer Lamp. Is that correct?
A. That would be correct.
Q. And is it your understanding that Leelanau Horse Rescue expects to be reimbursed for these expenses?
A. No, we do not expect to be reimbursed.
Q. So if Leelanau Horse Rescue is not reimbursed, that would not be a problem?
A. That would be correct.
Q. And what are some of the expenses Leelanau Horse Rescue has provided other than the skid steer that you mentioned?
A. Fencing, the reconstruction of all of the shelters, wood shavings, barn implements, wheelbarrows, pitch forks, hammers, nails, a lot of lumber, and we’ve paid a lot of veterinary expenses.
Q. Okay. And did you indicate that you, that Leelanau Horse Rescue does not expect to be reimbursed for those expenses?
A. We didn’t come into this anticipating or expecting to be reimbursed, no, sir, we did not.
Q. So Leelanau Horse Rescue then is, is kind of a charitable organization that raises money from donors to provide for horses in these kinds of situations?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And the donor base for this group called Leelanau Horse Rescue is primarily drawn from where?
A. From--
Q. If you know.
A. –-people who call and would like information about how to donate to the rescue.
Q. Now, the first time, you said the first time you saw a horse operation that you testified that looked like that was on March twenty-seventh, ’07. What did you mean by the first time I saw a horse operation that looked like that?
A. With grounds that were in the condition that those grounds were in.
Q. Now, how many horse operations have you seen?
A. In forty-five years?
Q. Yes.
A. Several. Hundred, I would say.
Q. All right. Do most of them look like the grounds and the operation of your operation on Henry Road or did they look different from that?
A. Many are different.
Q. Have you seen many operations where horse farm, farm horses are kept? Because you agreed you do not provide for farm horses yourself.
A. I don’t understand what the definition of farm horse means, sir.
Q. Well, it’s a horse that’s kept on a farm, not in a equestrian center.
A. Well, mine are kept on a farm also. Equestrian center is simply a name that’s used for an LLC. It is a horse farm.
Q. Okay. You stated there were several thin, undernourished horses in a paddock. Can you tell us how many?
A. Not exactly.
Q. Can you estimate?
A. At least several dozen. A couple dozen, I would say two dozen.
Q. Do you know who put them there?
A. Put-—
Q. Put the horses, several things under—-you said several. Now you’re at a couple dozen. Which is it?
A. Well, the ones that were paddocked, there were only a few that were paddocked.
Q. How many is a few?
A. To the best of my recollection, six.
Q. Thank you.
A. But those were not the only horses that I viewed.
THE COURT: You weren’t there till March twenty-seventh.
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: And as Mr. Hurst asked you, you don’t know how they got to where they were, those six or any other horses.
THE WITNESS: Correct.
BY MR. HURST:
Q. You testified regarding exhibit number nine, that the debris in the photographs on April twelfth was the debris that you saw when you came on the site on that date.
A. Correct.
Q. And that is your understanding that that was the debris that had been there since Animal Control had assumed control of the farm?
A. That was some of the debris.
Q. And are you aware of the date they assumed control of this horse farm?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. What is that date?
A. I believe it was the twentieth or the twenty-first.
Q. So if they assumed control of this horse farm on March twentieth or March twenty-first, much of the debris still existed on the ground on April twelfth in your photos.
A. That’s correct.
Q. Were you able to determine what work if any Animal Control had done on this horse farm between March twentieth and April twelfth?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you determine?
A. Large amounts of debris that had already been removed.
Q. Does anyone have photographs of that?
A. Well, I helped remove it.
Q. Does anyone have any photographs of it? Before it was removed.
A. Yes, sir, there are---
Q. Do you?
A. They are not here today, but there are photographs of it, yes.
MS. LAMP: Mr. Hurst?
MR. HURST: Yes.
MS. LAMP: I have approximately two thousand photographs on disc, if you, that are accessible on my computer if you wanted to use any of them.
MR. HURST: Thank you very much, Jennifer. I have no further questions of this witness.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan?
CROSS-EXAMINATION(At 4:09 p.m.)
BY MR. DUNGAN: