THE COURT: 073772 and 73FY. The attorneys are here, the defendants are here. Miss Lamp?
MS. LAMP: Your Honor, may we call our next witness?
THE COURT: Sure can.
MS. LAMP: The People call Dr. Richard Hammer to the stand.
THE COURT: Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you will give in this matter will be the truth, so help you God?
DR. HAMMER: I will.
THE COURT: Okay. Watch your step coming up. That chair is on rollers, so be careful. The microphone’s not going to make you any louder, so make sure you speak up loudly and distinctly for us. State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Richard Merritt Hammer.
THE COURT: What’s the middle name?
THE WITNESS: Merritt.
THE COURT: Spell that please.
THE WITNESS: M-e-r-r-i-t-t.
THE COURT: Hammer the common spelling?
THE WITNESS: H-a-m-m-e-r.
THE COURT: Thank you. Miss Lamp?
RICHARD MERRITT HAMMER, DVM
Celled at 12:05 p.m. by the People, sworn by the court, testified:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Dr. Hammer, what is your profession?
A. I am a veterinarian.
Q. And how long have you been a veterinarian?
A. Nineteen years.
Q. And what if any schooling did you have to go through to become a veterinarian?
A.
I was at
Q. And did you receive any particular degrees?
A. I have a doctorate in veterinary medicine.
Q. Okay. And after you completed veterinary school, did you complete any additional training?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And how—-you already said you had nineteen years. Any particular type of veterinary medicine that you practice?
A. Predominantly equine.
Q. Okay. And is that what you also schooled in during veterinary school?
A. Veterinary school was just general veterinary medicine.
Q. Okay. And you’ve sort of specialized in that since you’re become a veterinarian?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Okay. And have you also been licensed for nineteen years?
A. That is correct.
MS. LAMP: Your Honor, I would move to qualify Dr. Hammer as an expert witness in the field of equine veterinary medicine.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan and Mr. Hurst?
MR. DUNGAN: Your Honor we’d leave that to the discretion of the court.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. HURST: Same, Your Honor.
THE COURT: We’ll allow the doctor to testify in that, those fields.
MS. LAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q.
Dr. Hammer, did you have occasion to respond to a horse farm located at
A. I did, on March twenty-seventh.
Q. Okay. And what happened when you arrived there?
A. I met with Officer Wheaton on the morning of the twenty-seventh and we just walked the farm and, and took a general look at the condition of the horses that were there.
Q. Okay. And what were your initial observations then of your general look that you took?
A. My initial impression when we first arrived at the farm is that it, I was looking for a horse farm and didn’t recognize anything that was suitable for the horses. There was a lot of junk and debris. The horses were, at that time were in a large group out in the field. They had the younger horses isolated in a group and then they had some mares that were also isolated.
Q. And what were some of the more particular observations you made as far as the condition of the horses?
A. The first group we looked at they had separated the young horses, hard to classify ages, a group of weanlings, yearlings, possibly even two year olds, all severely emaciated. Three of the animals were injured. All of the animals were heavily parasitized, both externally with lice, some of the animals were passing ascarids in their feces.
Q. I’m sorry, they were passing what?
A. Ascarids, worms in their feces.
Q. Okay.
A. Overall they were very weak, long hair coats, in very poor condition.
Q. And why would it be difficult to tell whether they were yearlings, weanlings or possibly two year olds?
A. It, it would be, until they’re two and a half you really, I’m not good at using the dental records and they were all about the same size. In a normal situation you would think the size was equivalent to weanling, maybe early yearling, but they were all very, very small. But when you look at bone structure of their head and other issues like that, some of them could have been older than that.
Q. Okay. And, and I believe you said they were emaciated?
A. Severely emaciated and long hair coats. A lot of hair loss due to the lice.
Q. And this is the eleven that are in that separate group?
A. Correct. What I call the young group.
Q. The young group, okay. And when you say severely emaciated, can you define what that is so that we call understand it the same way?
A. Even with a heavy hair coat you could see basically all the, all their ribs, their hip bones, their skulls, just no fat on them at all. On a body condition scoring system of one to ten you’re in the two or below.
Q. Okay.
A. And most of them at one.
Q. And you said three were injured?
A. That is correct.
Q. Could you describe those injuries?
A. We dealt with the, what I thought was the most severe at the time. It was an open leg wound, granulation tissue which was just flesh tissue not healing properly, first, and that was a filly I believe and in examining her there was a wire protruding from the granulation tissue. I basically had to dig through the granulation tissue on the anterior aspect of the leg and cut the wire and remove the wire.
Q. Okay. And let me ask you if you needed to be a veterinarian to tell there was wire in the horse.
A. There, I saw the wire protruding from the posterior aspect of the leg without ever touching the animal.
Q. So it was actually sticking out.
A. It was actually sticking out probably inch and a half.
Q. Okay. And could you in your expert opinion based on your experience, can you say how old that wound might have been?
A. It is, it is very unusual to deal with a wound that that’s neglected. It at least, the wire was around the leg and had completely healed in and my opinion it would be at least three weeks and probably longer.
Q. So that the tissue if I understand it had actually healed around the wound?
A. That is correct. The wire was embedded underneath tissue that was trying to heal the leg and it was also severely infected.
Q. Okay. And then you talked about two other injured horses. Could you just briefly indicate what their injuries were?
A. There was, one of them had an abscess developing on the neck, looked like it was an injury that had been let go. Most likely in that situation a bite wound, something like that. It was forming an abscess on the neck. And the other one was a paint stallion, approximately a year of age, severely lame on the right rear leg I believe it was, a rear leg, and the stifle joint was enlarged, the horse was very sore on the hip and almost at the point of refusing to move.
Q. Would that be the horse that was referred to as Seven with the backward seven on its face?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. Now, were there three other mares that were emaciated that you observed on that day?
A. Yes.
THE COURT: Let me stop you first at the three. Young, these are young, right? Is that what you’re talking about, these three that you just talked about?
THE WITNESS: The three that I just talked about would be in the group of—-
THE COURT: And one was a filly, right?
THE WITNESS: Correct. The group that we’ve been discussing was the group of the eleven weanlings, yearlings as I referred to them.
MS. LAMP: Okay.
THE
COURT: Yes. Now, that first one is a filly, is that a
color or description of that horse in any way?
MS. LAMP: Would bay filly be an accurate description of
it?
THE WITNESS: That would be correct.
THE COURT: Bay.
MS. LAMP: That would be an accurate-—okay.
THE WITNESS: Yeah. It’s, it’s very difficult when you walk in as a veterinarian in a situation you’re almost overwhelmed with no identification and you have a lot of bay fillies, you have a lot of, you know, sorrel fillies. The identification was a major issue there that--
THE COURT: The first one was a bay filly.
THE WITNESS: Yup.
THE COURT: The second one, what’s that? The one with the neck abscess.
THE WITNESS: I’m thinking it was a stud colt.
THE COURT: A stud colt?
THE WITNESS: Yup.
THE COURT: Any other description as far as color or anything like that?
THE WITNESS: My recollection is he was bay.
MR. DUNGAN: He was what?
THE WITNESS: Bay.
MS. LAMP: A bay stud colt?
THE WITNESS: Yeah. To the best of my recollection.
THE COURT: The third one was then a paint stud.
THE WITNESS: That is correct.
THE COURT: All right, thank you. Miss Lamp?
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. And let me ask you about the abscess on the stud, bay stud colt. Could you describe that?
A. It was an abscess on the, on the neck that—-it was, I believe at that time it was draining pus at that time. It was, in the overall visit that day that was the least serious of the animals that we were dealing with. We had larger issues at hand that day.
Q. Okay. And let me ask you, you made a comment in your testimony that it appeared to be an injury that had been let go for a while. Is that correct?
A. That is correct. Abscesses form over a period of time. They are not an acute situation.
Q. And what type of period of time did they form over? If you know.
A. Depending on the amount of bacteria present, you know, several days.
Q. Okay. Now, moving on to the three emaciated mares. Where were they located when you observed them on the twenty-seventh?
A. Animal Control had segregated them off to themselves out of the general population.
Q. Okay. And could you describe their condition?
A. The grulla mare was severely emaciated to the point that you could see all bones in her body, no fat whatsoever, and from a distance I thoroughly expected to walk up and see an old horse that was just having trouble with the situation being in the pecking order. When I opened the mouth to look at the teeth, I aged it at four to five, right in that range. So you’re dealing with a very young horse. I found no health issues with that, with the grulla mare whatsoever, other than heavily parasitized. I won’t, I won’t consider the parasites a health problem, I consider them a management problem, but I found no medical problems for that mare to be in the condition she was in, other than her teeth did need to be floated. The other, the sorrel mare I, I aged her eighteen years, eighteen to twenty. She did have a health issue. She has heaves or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and if untreated and exposed to, you know, dusty conditions, that could have been a result of her condition. And then the last mare in that group was a bay mare, once again, eighteen years of age or older according to what I aged her at. Found no issues other than the dental neglect for her condition.
Q. Do you know if any of the horses were pregnant or appeared to be pregnant?
A. On, on my first visit we did not preg check, rectal palpate any mares. A lot of the mares in the field had the appearance of being pregnant.
Q. Okay, all right. And as far as the overall larger group of horses, were those the ones out in the pasture?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. Could you describe their body condition?
A. Walking through that day I judged roughly a third of them to be in fair condition and that would leave two thirds of them to, that I thought were thin.
Q. And was there anything else that you noticed about the larger herd of horses?
A. At that time the, thee stallions were still running with the mares and I lost track trying to count how many there were. There was, you know, roughly, you know, fifteen to twenty, in that range I think that day when we, when we guesstimated how many stallions were running with the mares.
Q. Is there anything unusual about stallions running with mares?
A. I would-—it’s not a generally accepted practice to run that many stallions with that many mares. When you’re running a breeding operation you’re, you basically wouldn’t know what your pedigrees were for one thing.
Q. Okay. What, how would you do it in a generally accepted standard?
A. If you’re running a breeding operation and you need to know what the pedigrees are, you would need one stallion with a group of mares, and it was more, there was multiple ages as well in that group.
Q. And what about the shelter, did you have a chance to observe that and assess that situation?
A. The shelters for the large group?
Q. Yes.
A. I don’t think there was any shelter for the large group.
Q. Okay. Did you see any sheds or anything like that or lean-tos? If you recall.
A. There were piles, there was so much trash and debris I don’t recall seeing ever any shed in the large group.
Q. If somebody were to characterize the amount of debris on the farm there as absurd, would that be a gross mischaracterization?
A. There was an excessive amount of debris in a pasture field.
Q. Okay. And what about the, did you believe that the amount of horses there on that farm was okay for the amount of land and stuff provided?
A. If, if adequate feed was to be fed and run it as a dry lot operation, I still don’t believe there was enough land to support what was there, and especially if you’re going to consider it a, for them to get any feed value from the pasture, then there was definitely not.
Q. Okay. And why wouldn’t there have been feed value on the pasture?
A. When I was there in March there was no pasture.
Q. Okay.
A. There was nothing green growing at all. And everything had been—-if there was pasture in the fall they had consumed it all during the winter.
Q. Okay. And I was going to ask you that, if it would make a difference the time of year that you were there whether there was pasture or not. Because I don’t know.
A. When I was there on the twenty-seventh, there was no pasture, it was basically mud and manure.
Q. Okay. Would you attribute that to the time of year or something else?
A. The mud was obviously the time of year, the dirt lot with that number of horses is just over, overstocking that area with horses.
Q. Do you know or if you’re able to, Doctor, can you tell me what would be an appropriate amount of horses to have there, or are you not able to quantify that?
A. I think a lot of it is common sense. I wouldn’t want to put an exact figure. I guess as a general rule I would say two acres per horse. If you’re going to count on pasture. And there’s nothing wrong with dry lot situations if you assume the responsibility of providing adequate feed to them.
Q. Okay. And did it appear that that’s what was going on here?
A. The—-it appeared to me as though the, when you put that many horses together you’re going to have a pecking order and the strong will get what feed is provided, and it was obvious to me that at least two thirds of them were falling behind and not getting what they needed.
Q. And did you have a recommended feeding program?
A. Yes. At that, at that time I recommended definitely separating the animals that needed special care, those three mares that we’ve already discussed, definitely separating the weanling group and providing special care, separating the, the two most severely injured weanlings and providing them special care. And then the recommended feeding program was just a basic feeding program of a half to one percent of their body weight in grain and one and a half to two percent of their body weight in hay, and I recommended feeding the hay free choice and starting the grain off at a low level and slowly increasing over thirty days. Also emphasized we needed salt blocks and free choice water.
Q. And did you have an opinion as to whether there was neglect going on on this farm based on your training and experience?
A. My opinion at the time was that the situation I was observing did not happen overnight and that it was a, definitely a neglect situation.
Q. Had you seen a farm like this ever before?
A. No.
Q. Okay.
A. I am involved in probably ten to twenty other cases in my nineteen years and the magnitude of it, the, just the large number of horses was the overwhelming issue.
Q. Now, would you characterize this in your expert opinion as more than neglect?
A. I think-—when I look at situations like this I try to separate what I call stupidity from neglect and then beyond that where it’s actually intentional abuse of that situation, and when you have people that should know better, that rules out your stupidity. And then when it goes on for an extended period of time, the grulla mare is the best example I can think of. Those animals don’t get in that situation over a short period of time. That’s long term. And so in this situation walking in one time and then revisiting what the changes have been made and how they’re improving to just simply feed, I, I, my opinion is it was abuse.
Q. Okay. And did you have occasion at a later time to come back and, and visit the horse named Seven? And what’s the other name for Seven?
THE COURT: Elvis.
MS. LAMP: Elvis. I don’t know why I can’t remember Elvis and the pelvis.
THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. I revisited the farm on April fourth, 2007, and at that time I took radiographs of the filly with the leg wound and reevaluated the paint with the stifle, upper leg injury.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. And what did you recommend?
A. The radiographs, what I was looking for on the radiographs is to be sure that I hadn’t missed any wire when I was removing it and to look at the bone and see if there was bone infection. And I told the Animal Control if there was bone infection I would recommend euthanasia, and there was not any bone infection, and I recommended that both Seven, the paint and the filly with the leg injury be referred to Michigan State for proper care.
Q. Okay. And on Seven, could you tell if that condition that it had—-number one, could you describe the condition of Seven. Let’s start there.
THE COURT: We talked about Seven already.
MS. LAMP: Seven is Elvis.
THE COURT: I know that. These horses that we talked about, which one’s Seven? We’ve got Seven, we’ve got the one with the wire, that’s the bay filly. Which one of these are we talking--
MS. LAMP: It’s the paint.
THE COURT: The paint stallion are we talking about, Doctor?
THE WITNESS: Yes, yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Miss Lamp?
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Could you describe the, what the problem was?
A. Seven was severely emaciated, didn’t walk normal at all, was severely sore on his back legs. On physical exam I could identify that it was something in the upper leg, but without radiographs and proper diagnostics I could not tell exactly what was wrong. That’s why we referred to an institution that could care for that.
Q. Were you able to tell whether it was a longstanding condition?
A. No, no. I, knowing, looking at the condition of the horse, his condition was a longstanding condition, but without an exact diagnosis I couldn’t.
Q. Okay.
A. After reading the pathology report I have an opinion on that, but I, I couldn’t, when I was at the farm would not have been able to say whether it was acute or chronic.
Q. And that would be Dr. Williams’ pathology report from MSU, would that be correct?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And the pathology report being after obviously Seven was euthanized.
A. That’s correct.
Q. Okay. And what was your opinion based upon reading that pathology report?
A. The, the pathology report basically indicated a severely starved, chronic condition with that horse and basically bone to bone contact in the hip joint and in the stifle joint and even in the hock joint. A condition called osteochondrosis.
Q. And what is the cause of osteochondrosis, Doctor?
A. You’re opening a whole can of worms. It, it, there are different phases of osteochondrosis. In this situation it just appears to be dietary starvation from looking at the other conditions the horse had. There is a hereditary component to osteochondrosis that’s exacerbated by nutritional influences.
Q. So even if a horse for example were predisposed to have this, having this condition, with proper diet the horse would be fine?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. But in a case where you have a emaciated horse it would not be surprising.
A. Not surprising at all.
Q. Okay, all right. And is this a painful condition for the horse?
A. The bone to bone in the, in the hip joint would be extremely painful.
Q. Would you be able to say, Doctor, in your expert opinion that the condition of the horse in its totality had risen to the level of torture?
A. Can you give me definition of torture?
Q. I’ll give you the Merriam Webster’s definition of torture, and that is agony of body or mind or infliction of intense pain.
MR. DUNGAN: Well, Your Honor, I guess I’ll object to the sense that I think that’s your call to make based on the facts that you hear and I don’t know if the dictionary definition is worth anything today or not.
THE
COURT: Well, there’s a case law
definition in People versus Fennell, F-e-n-n-e-l-l, 260 Michigan Appeals 261,
talking about that, Doctor. They ask the
question whether or not the defendant killed and or tortured an animal or did
anything that resulted in the killing and torture of an animal. Torture means severe physical or mental pain,
agony or anguish. Can you answer the
question now?
THE WITNESS: There is no doubt in my mind with the
longstanding condition, the paint was over a year of age so it was not an acute
situation, it was longstanding and I would consider that torture.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. And Doctor, moving on to the horse called Wire, what filly is this, what do we call it? Wire is a bay filly. The bay filly was also one of the injured weanlings. Is that correct?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Okay. And I think you already testified that that had been at least three weeks old or probably older. Is that correct?
A. In my opinion it would take at least three weeks for the granulation tissue to grow enough to completely embed the wire into the, into the wound.
Q. And at some point in the care of this animal you had recommended that it go to MSU. Correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And I think there were some court proceedings that happened and as a result of those did you end up consulting with Dr. Irving? If you recall.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And how did that occur?
A. Dr. Irving and I are, are not only colleagues but friends and he called me after it was scheduled for him to look at the horse and asked me what I, what I had seen and I told him what the radiographs were so that he wouldn’t have to retake the radiographs and that was the extent of the contact.
Q. Okay. And in your opinion was that a painful condition for the bay filly to be in?
A. The bay filly was basically refusing to put weight on that leg the day that I was there. She would touch her toe, I think she would be telling you that it was painful.
Q. Okay. And let me ask you if in your expert opinion that the treatment of the bay filly would also rise to the level of torture.
A. If an individual knew there was a wire which was very obvious looking and neglected it for the period of, of three weeks or more, I would consider that torture as well.
Q. And drawing your attention, Doctor, to the grulla mare, the condition of that horse, that level of emaciation. I’m going to ask you if you’ve ever seen a horse that emaciated before.
A. Only with medical conditions that would make it understandable that an animal would be in that condition. I have never seen a horse that emaciated that I couldn’t find any other health issues other than the parasites to explain why that animal was in that condition.
Q. And would that, this seems like a fairly obvious question but I feel that I need to ask it, would the horse suffer pain and agony as a result of being in that condition and the process of getting to that point?
A. I don’t know if starvation would be a painful condition. I think she was suffering to be in that condition, yes, but as to say painful, I can’t say that.
Q. Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, that’s why I’m asking.
A. Yeah.
Q. And let me ask you if you felt that the treatment of the grulla mare in the condition it was in at the farm at the time that you observed it, do you believe that that would rise to the level of torture based on the definition that the judge has given you?
A. Yes, I would.
Q. And Doctor, can you approximate if you’re able to, how many pounds underweight that horse would have to be?
A. She would be—-that, her frame I would estimate could carry eleven hundred pounds and she was probably seven hundred, six eighty-five when I looked at her.
Q. And were there any other concerns that you had about the horses at the farm that you’ve not already testified about?
A. Basically getting the stallions separated from the mares so that we could end the, limit the numbers, not knowing what was going to happen with the whole group, I made general recommendations separating age groups, fixing some fence lines and, but the main thing was just, those horses just needed feed was my opinion. When I was there Animal Control had already implemented feeding the horses. They had a lot of dry hay available, water source. I checked, they had an abundance of water that was not froze, that was readily available to the horses and they had already started separating most of the age groups, doing the best they could with the facilities at the time.
Q. Okay. And I believe you describe it as overwhelming as far as the amount of horses when you came on to the scene. Is that correct?
A. That was my feeling, yes.
Q. Okay. Would you think it also may be overwhelming for Animal Control coming on to a scene like that?
A. I, I believe any, any time you’re in a situation to try to help an animal in any regard and you have that many animals, you just don’t know where to start.
Q. Okay.
A. Like I said, a third of the animals in the field they were, they were doing okay for themselves. Whatever feed was being provided they were finding it. So it wasn’t, you know, those you could just set aside. But the immediate concerns, the weanlings when you look at these pictures in front of me, they’re, you just don’t know where to start. I mean, you don’t have one animal you can pick and say, let’s take care of this one. It was just an overwhelming group of problems.
Q. And in your expert opinion how long of a period of time do you think it would take for this farm to end up being in this condition?
A. Young animals deteriorate far more rapid than older horses, but five, six months on that grulla mare without adequate feed or water. The younger horses obviously hadn’t grown. Being the time of the year a lot of those had to be at least a year old and they aren’t any bigger than weanlings. On a well run farm.
Q. So at least a five to six month period overall.
A. That would be my opinion, yeah.
Q. Okay.
A. That it had been that long.
MS. LAMP: Thank you, Doctor. I don’t have any further questions.
THE COURT: Doctor, the attorneys will have some questions for you too. Mr. Dungan?
CROSS-EXAMINATION (At 12:39 p.m.)
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. Good afternoon, Dr. Hammer. The first date that you were out to the farm or became associated with this case was March twenty-seventh, is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And how did your involvement come to be?
A. Animal Control from Jackson had called my office and wanted an outside opinion.
Q. Do you know who it was that called?
A. I have a receptionist. I do not know.
Q. And do you know how soon before the twenty-seventh someone called?
A. I don’t have that information with me, but we keep a log and that would be available if somebody needed it. I do not know.
Q. Do you know if you went out the same day you were called?
A. This time of the year I would not go out the same day I was called.
Q. All right.
A. It would be impossible.
Q. Because you’re busy.
A. Correct.
Q. All right. And you said they wanted an opinion from--when they called?
A. I had never been to the farm. I did not know the owners. It was a completely unbiased professional opinion of what I would find.
Q. All right. That’s what they told you they wanted?
A. That is correct.
Q. All right. They told that to you or told that to your staff?
A. I, when I got to the farm I asked what they wanted me to do and she said we just want your opinion as to what to do here.
Q. Okay. And who was it that you met with out at the farm?
A. Officer Wheaton was the first person I met.
Q. Okay. Who else did you meet out at the farm that day?
A. Officer Dunlap and then there were some other people there that I didn’t, didn’t know who they were.
Q. Was your primary contact then with Wheaton?
A. That is correct.
Q. As far as who you were discussing the different issues with?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. You understand there are sixty-nine horses out at that farm. Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And as far as the farm itself, you made some comments about garbage, junk, debris, things like that throughout the farm.
A. There was a lot of debris, yes.
Q. All right. Did you consider that to be any kind of danger or health hazard to those sixty-nine horses?
A. There, a lot of the junk was not a hazard, but a lot of the junk was nails protruding, wire laying loose, baler twine in bundles laying around. It in my opinion was an unsafe environment to have horses.
Q. All right. So a lot of junk and debris out there, some of it dangerous, some of it not.
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you happen to take note if the debris was I guess segregated more in areas where the horses weren’t? Kept away from the horses is what I mean.
A. I—-there was equal, there was a lot of debris in with the horses but there was a lot of debris outside of the pens as well.
Q. Okay. Other than the horse with the serious leg laceration, did you treat any horses for injuries that would be consistent with being caused by that kind of debris?
A. The horse with the abscess on the neck I don’t know why, that could be injury, it could be bite. That one we looked at. The leg wound that had the wire in it, so yeah, those would be the two that we looked at.
Q. So two out of sixty-nine potentially with injuries caused by debris.
A. Correct.
Q. And you’re not, you’re not suggesting that the abscess that horse had on its neck got caused by something that was on the ground?
A. No, but it was, the junk was piled high enough that it would be feasible—-
Q. Okay.
A. Yeah, I don’t know why the abscess formed on that horse’s neck.
Q. Is that--well, I’ll talk to you a little more about that in a little bit then. It sounds like your main concerns were with this group of eleven horses that you looked at initially.
A. The eleven plus the three mares that we had segregated.
Q. Okay. And the eleven we’re essentially talking about young weanlings.
A. Weanlings, yearlings, two year olds, yeah.
Q. Okay. You had issues with their body condition score.
A. Extremely emaciated.
Q. All right. Had issues with parasites.
A. Yes.
Q. And when you say parasites, is that, are you referring to worms?
A. Worms and external parasites being the lice.
Q. Okay. And as far as the worms being concerned, that’s an internal parasite?
A. Correct.
Q. And common in each and every horse.
A. Common in horses that are not on a parasite control program. That’s why we implement parasite control programs is to try to prevent it.
Q. And the best that you can do with any horse is try to prevent it. I mean, you’re never going to get a horse completely de-wormed.
A. I would disagree with that.
Q. Okay. Even, I guess if you went on a very, very strict de-worming regimen, I guess it’s theoretically possible to completely de-worm a horse.
A. Yes.
Q. All right. But not everybody who owns horses does that.
A. That would be correct.
Q. All right. A horse passing worms is not the most unusual thing in the world, is it?
A. When they are passing ascarids and they’re a year old, it can be significant. Ascarid impactions, heavy ascarid problems, any worm condition affects growth, and if you look at the pathology report from the paint horse, there was a huge amount of damage done to the intestinal tract due to parasites and that affects the absorption of nutrients on that horse. I don’t think especially in the young horse, if you want to minimize the importance of de-worming, you could convince me to do that in adult horses, but you couldn’t convince me to minimize it in weanlings and young horses.
Q. So more important with the younger horses than the older horses.
A. It is generally accepted practice we worm, we worm young horses starting at six weeks of age and we do them every thirty days until they’re a year old.
Q. Okay. The horses had long hair coats, right? The weanlings?
A. That is correct.
Q. Consistent with being in the cold weather.
A. That would be correct. What--
Q. I mean, that’s not necessarily a criticism from you that they had long hair coats, is it?
A. No. But we, as veterinarians we, we look at hair coats. There is a healthy long hair coat that you see on horses that are housed, or that live in Michigan, and then there’s unhealthy hair coats that’s more of a coarse longer hair coat and that’s what I observed on these animals.
Q. Okay. Now, the one horse that you looked at with the open leg wound.
A. Mm-Hmm.
Q. Okay. That’s the horse that we’ve been referring to as Ice. Okay? Now, was that wound wrapped or unwrapped when you first observed it?
A. It was unwrapped.
Q. All right. And do you know how long it had been in an unwrapped condition?
A. I—-no, I don’t.
Q. Do you know if it had ever been wrapped?
A. I don’t.
Q. All right. And you without using any special skills as a veterinarian was able to see a piece of wire sticking out.
A. There was wire protruding from the posterior aspect.
Q. Could that wire have been deeper in the wound where it could not be seen as easily as you did and worked itself out?
A. No, because it, it was wrapped completely around the leg and had formed a, a knot, it basically folded on itself, and what I did was cut part of the circle around the leg and then pulled out both pieces at one time. So it wasn’t going to work any direction.
Q. So it would be impossible for that wound to have worked itself from the inside to the outside?
A. The wire would not have been able to work from the inside out, correct.
Q. See, that’s interesting to me and what I wanted to ask you about that is on March twenty-first of 2007, which would be six days before you were out there, Animal Control had called in a horse rescue team of Kim and Brad Ratcliff and they brought their daughter with her who works for a vet and they treated that horse’s wound and what they provided in their report--
MS. LAMP: Your Honor, I’m going to object to this. What he’s asking is not anything that, in evidence. We don’t know whether that happened and--
MR. DUNGAN: It’s going to be, Your Honor--
MS. LAMP: I guess maybe he could ask, okay.
MR. DUNGAN: The Ratcliffs are going to testify.
MS. LAMP: I thought there was problems with that.
THE COURT: You’re going to have to say if.
MR. DUNGAN: Pardon me?
THE COURT: If this is the situation, then what do you think, Doctor. Is that what you’re saying?
MR. DUNGAN: I’ll do it that way if you want me to.
THE COURT: Well, you’re saying, you’re reading something into the record that’s not there and---
MR. DUNGAN: All right. Well--
THE COURT: This is what you want to do, isn’t it? If this were the situation, Doc, something happened on the twenty-first, what do you think.
MR. DUNGAN: Okay.
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. If on March twenty-first, 2007, six days before you got out there, Animal Control brought in two horse rescue people and a vet tech, they looked at Ice and they said possible wire in wound, unable to determine at this time. They didn’t see a wire. You don’t seem to think that’s possible. Can you explain that discrepancy?
A. The day that I was there the wire was protruding from the wound without me having any trouble seeing it.
Q. No, I understand that and then you went on to tell me it was impossible that it could have worked its way from inside to the outside.
A. If it was wrapped around the leg and the part that was protruding was the actual knot that had formed when the horse broke it loose.
Q. Whatever you saw on March twenty-seventh as far as that wire sticking out, should whoever looked at that horse on March twenty-first, six days earlier, have seen the exact same thing?
A. I don’t--if the examination was complete, then I, yes.
Q. All right. So if they said the wound was full of proud flesh, that it was infected and very sore and that they lanced it, allowed blood and pus to drain, put on peroxide, alcohol, scarlet oils and triple antibiotic and then wrapped it, doing all that, should they have seen the wire sticking out?
A. I saw the wire without any, any trouble.
Q. No, I understand that, but shouldn’t they have?
A. (No audible response)
Q. I mean, you see why I’m asking this question, right? I mean, you got, you know, you’re making it sound like there’s this wire that’s been wrapped around for the whole world to see that nobody did anything about for weeks at a time and we’ve got people on the twenty-first saying that it was so deep in the wound that they couldn’t see it. I mean, this is kind of important to us and you know, you told me it’s impossible it could work from the inside to the outside. So what is it?
A. I don’t know, I don’t know why they didn’t see it on the twenty-first.
Q. Okay. All right. The other horse that you looked at with an injury was the one that had the abscess to the neck. Correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Likely caused from a bite wound.
A. The location and the way the skin looked around it led me to believe that it was probably a bite wound.
Q. Okay. And this is nothing that would have necessarily required any immediate vet treatment, is it?
A. Not vet treatment, but antibiotics probably would have been indicated.
Q. Okay. And as far as the abscess, you indicated it would take several days for that to form.
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Several mean two, three?
A. Minimum, yeah.
Q. Okay. So seven days prior to your visit this abscess wound probably did not exist where someone would see and notice it.
A. Abscesses can exist for months once they form. So I, I would not say how long the abscess had been there.
Q. Now, you had talked about a sorrel mare that had COPD?
A. That is correct.
Q. And you’d estimate her age at about eighteen.
A. Yeah. I’m not an equine--
Q. No, and I’m saying, I want to tell you, I want you to assume for purposes of me asking you questions that she’s twenty-five.
A. All right.
Q. All right? COPD, is that common in a horse of that age?
A. It is common, yes.
Q. And it’s not a result of abuse.
A. No.
THE COURT: C-O-P-D? For chronic obstruction pulmonary disorder?
MR. DUNGAN: Exactly. Thanks.
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. And the bay mare apparently you had no issues with her other than her body condition score.
A. As I recall.
Q. All right. The grulla you had some issues with.
A. (No audible response)
Q. The younger one.
A. Yeah, I did not find any medical problem wrong with the grulla mare.
Q. Okay. Did Animal Control give you any medical history for that horse?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. Did the owner or caretaker of that horse prior to Animal Control taking over give you any medical history for that horse?
A. I have never met the caretaker.
Q. So you haven’t had a chance to talk to for example Matt Mercier the caretaker who saw that horse on a daily basis as to why she got in the condition that she got.
A. I have not.
Q. All right. Would you agree with me that there could be some valid reasons why that horse dropped so far in body condition score that have nothing to do with torture, abuse or neglect?
A. My examination did not reveal anything that I, I would deem medical for that horse’s condition.
Q. What did your exam consist of?
A. Just a general physical exam.
Q. Well, I don’t, I don’t know what that is.
A. Heart, lungs, intestine, we did a rectal palpation, looked in her mouth. That, just a general, general exam.
Q. Okay. Kind of like I would get if I needed a physical from my doctor?
A. That is correct. And I have one advantage on the grulla mare, is that I did a follow-up visit thirty days later with nothing other than parasite control, no medications, just simply feeding the mare, and have seen a drastic improvement.
Q. All right. Something happened to help her appetite, apparently.
A. She has, she has really picked up.
Q. Okay. Sounds like with the pasture horses then which is the majority of the horses, I guess your only issue was stallions running with mares needed to be fixed.
A. Stallions running with mares and general hoof care. Some of them had some long feet that needed to be trimmed, some cracks that were going to become an issue if they didn’t do anything—-
Q. Not torture-abuse foot care though.
A. No. In that stupidity category that I put things in.
Q. Okay, all right. And some of them needed to put on a little bit of weight. Right?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. Now, as far as horses wintering outside in Michigan, I mean, it’s acceptable to do that, isn’t it?
A. It’s acc—-twenty-four hours a day or just to be outside?
Q. Horses can winter outside in Michigan I guess as long as they’ve got a wind block or something.
A. Proper shelter, that’s correct.
Q. I mean, they’re different from us.
A. That’s correct.
Q. All right. Horses wintering outside in Michigan generally not a problem as long as they have a long winter coat, correct?
A. With proper nutrition and proper shelter, correct.
Q. Sure, all right. Would you agree that a horse in good condition with a good hair coat is better off wintering outdoors than indoors?
A. And with your question we’re assuming we have at least a wind break and some shelter and proper feed.
Q. Yeah, yeah.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And hay is appropriate feed in the winter?
A. That is--yes.
Q. Is it true that a horse will create more body heat from eating hay than it would from grain?
A. The fermentation that’s occurring, yes, will produce heat.
Q. All right. And grain doesn’t do that.
A. Well, that is correct, it doesn’t ferment, but there are more carbohydrates in corn than there would be in hay.
Q. Okay. How fast do horses gain weight? Generally.
A. That, that’s a tough question to--
Q. Do they lose weight faster than they gain weight?
A. Do they lose weight faster. That is correct.
Q. Okay. So for a horse to go downward in a body condition scale, say a horse is at BCS four and it’s gone down to BCS three. You can do that faster than trying to bring it from a four up to a five.
A. Oh, definitely, yes.
Q. All right. How much faster?
A. (No audible response)
Q. I mean, can you generalize it, is it twice as long, three times as long?
A. It depends on why the horse lost the weight to start with, but if you, if it’s just lack of feed—-let’s use starvation as the best example. If it took a month to lose the weight, it’s going to take three, four, five months to gain the weight back.
Q. Okay. So we’re talking about a rule of three, four, five times.
A. Yeah, that would just be my general rule.
Q. All right. As the temperature gets colder outside in Michigan, a horse’s energy requirements increase?
A. Increases twenty percent.
Q. All right. And so as a result then, they need to take in more calories in order to try to maintain body weight. Is that correct?
A. That’s correct.
Q. Would you agree with me that it’s not at all unusual for horses to drop weight in the winter time?
A. I would disagree that it’s, that that would be normal.
Q. How about not unusual?
A. It would not be unusual to see a horse lose some weight in the winter.
Q. I mean, don’t even some vets say, you know, when it starts getting into fall and moving into winter, get your horses’ BC up, BCS up a little bit because you know you’re going to drop a couple in the winter? I mean, isn’t that fairly common?
A. That is correct.
Q. We fatten them up because, I don’t know, it’s almost like a bear hibernating I guess to a certain extent, because they’re going to drop BCS during the winter time.
A. Correct.
Q. All right.
THE COURT: What’s BCS?
MR. DUNGAN: Body condition score. That one through nine scale that he talked about.
THE COURT: Initials.
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. Would you agree that it’s, it’s more difficult for horses to maintain weight during the winter, because of the extra energy that’s being burned up to generate heat?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And would you agree that thin horses get colder easier and use so much energy to keep warm that sometimes there’s not enough calories left over to maintain weight?
A. A thin horse by definition doesn’t have the fat to burn on the days when it needs to stay warm. That’s correct.
Q. Okay. And in young horses too, and I guess even if it’s brood mares in late gestation, that sometimes they’re not able to eat enough during the winter to maintain weight because of their either young age or the fact they’re in late gestation that there’ll be restrictions in their digestive system capacity? They just can’t take in as much food as they may need?
A. Okay. So your question is regarding the pregnant mares?
Q. Yeah. And young horses as well.
A. Okay. I’ll sep-—we have to separate those. The pregnant mare you’re, you are correct and the fetus is taking up so much room they have trouble consuming enough feed.
Q. Okay. And young horses?
A. Young horses have no problem maintaining weight if they’re provided adequate nutrition.
Q. Okay. Would you agree that not every horse is equal in their ability to maintain an ideal weight?
A. Yes, I would agree.
Q. And that no doubt in your experience as a veterinarian specializing in equine you’re faced with situations time to time where a horse owner or caretaker comes to you and says I’m having trouble keeping weigh on this guy.
A. That is correct.
Q. And it’s not because every time that he’s torturing, abusing or neglecting the animal.
A. That is correct.
Q. Sometimes there are very legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with torture, abuse or neglect that make it difficult to keep weight on an animal.
A. That is correct.
Q. All right. A number of factors are going to affect a horse’s ability to maintain an ideal weight. Would diet be one of them?
A. Yes.
Q. Age?
A. Yes.
Q. Health?
A. Yes.
Q. Sickness?
A. Yes.
Q. Disease?
A. Yes.
Q. Dominance in the herd?
A. A major factor, yes.
Q. Some horses are just finicky or get disinterested from time to time about eating?
A. There are finicky eaters, yes.
Q. All right. Parasites will affect?
A. In a chronic parasitized animal there’s actually enough irritation to the gut that it, they will start backing off feed because of the chronic condition.
Q. All right. Change in diet sometimes from hay to grass or back, or vice versa sometimes will affect their ability?
A. That is correct.
Q. And there’s probably what, twenty others I haven’t thought of?
A. Yes.
Q. That you wouldn’t be able to tell us.
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the term, hard keepers?
A. Yes.
Q. What does that mean?
A. Simply a horse that is hard to keep weight on.
Q. Okay. And that’s typically older horses, is that true?
A. That is correct.
Q. All right. And hard keepers essentially struggle to maintain weight because of age related issues.
A. Yes.
Q. Talking about it could be dental, their teeth are wearing out.
A. Correct.
Q. Gastrointestinal, they could have a parasite history, any number of things?
A. Yes.
Q. Could have immune system issues?
A. That is correct.
Q. They get a little stressy and they get arthritic and sometimes have pain issues as well.
A. Correct.
Q. And all of those things could affect diet and their ability to eat and maintain weight.
A. Correct.
Q. None of those things have anything to do with torture, abuse or neglect.
A. As you mentioned pain, pain can be managed and if pain is the issue causing the poor appetite or the weight loss, then I think pain should be managed.
Q. Okay. Would you agree a senior horse, especially an old brood mare, carries her weight differently than a younger horse?
A. Oh, absolutely.
Q. And how so?
A. The older brood mares, the abdominal musculature starts to give way and they start getting sway backed and they just carry their weight different.
Q. They sag?
A. Yup.
Q. Just like us old people?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. When they get older and they start sagging, would you agree that when you look at the horse it will show a more prominent spine, wither, hip, ribs, areas like that?
A. That is correct.
Q. I mean, and take that one step farther. If you’re trying to figure a proper body condition score for an older or geriatric horse, you can’t necessarily use I guess the Henneke scale of what’s sticking out and what’s protruding or what can we see, you almost have to determine it in a little different way, don’t you?
A. That would be correct.
Q. Okay. Back to again--one more question about older horses. Would you agree they’re more sensitive to cold weather than a younger horse?
A. Could you define what you mean by sensitive?
Q. They have a tougher time in the winter than a younger horse?
A. Yeah, I would agree with that.
Q. An older horse is more likely to lose weight throughout a winter than a younger horse?
A. That is correct.
Q. All right. Now, as far as water and providing the horses with water during the winter time. It’s common and accepted to have unheated sources of water for horses in the winter time?
A. That is correct. Horses consume more water that is heated, but it is common to have unheated water.
Q. All right. But they are less thirsty in the winter time.
A. I would phrase that they are more thirsty in the summer, not less thirsty in the winter.
Q. Just like we are. It’s hot out, they’re running around, they get more thirsty.
A. Correct.
Q. Metabolism, everything else, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. As far as providing the horses with water in the winter time, twice a day enough?
A. You’re into the pecking order situation and I’m not sure providing a, a large group of horses water twice a day would be acceptable.
Q. Okay. What would be acceptable?
A. Free choice water in a large group of horses like that.
Q. What do you mean by free choice water?
A. Water twenty-four hours a day. When they want it, they can go to it.
Q. Okay. Now, if somebody didn’t do that, would you call that torture, abuse or neglect?
A. It depends on the length of time.
Q. Okay, all right. The horses are going to develop rough coats in the winter. Is that correct?
A. They have a longer hair coat in the winter, yes.
Q. All right. That’s just essentially nature’s way of providing them with some extra insulation to get through the colder weather. True?
A. Correct.
Q. Does a pretty good job of keeping them warm?
A. Yes.
Q. Doesn’t necessarily look very nice.
A. Correct.
MR. DUNGAN: That’s all the questions I have. Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Hurst?
MR. HURST: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp, do you have any further questions?
MS. LAMP: Just a couple, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION (at 1:07 p.m.)
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Dr. Hammer, do you think that, that we had a particularly rough winter this year?
A. Not any-—no.
Q. Okay. And do you think that if somebody were to say that, you know, gee, it’s been a rough winter, that that would be a valid explanation for the condition of the grulla mare?
A. This particular year, if you remember right, we had seventy degree weather in December, so by March when I looked at the horses we had had a maximum of ninety days of cold weather. I would say this is one year that I would not agree with that at all.
Q. Okay. And you referred to a complete examination on cross examination, and I’m wondering if you could just define what that is. Do you remember that?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay.
A. Basically you steth-—you use your stethoscope, listen to heart, lungs. We did a rectal exam for any masses or anything that might be there. Looking for anything abnormal. We did not do blood work at that time. I didn’t find any, any reason to pursue it at that time.
Q. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is that you had said that it would not be, that this time of year if somebody called you, you would not be able to go out on the same day because this is the busy time of year. Is that a fair characterization of what you testified to?
A. That is correct.
Q. Why is this a busy time of year for you?
A. I do predominantly equine reproduction and I, like I said, the farm in Grass Lake is an hour from my home and I, I did it because I felt like they needed somebody with an outside opinion on the matter and so it’s an hour away and just hard for me to get to.
Q. Did you get there as soon as you could?
A. As soon as my schedule would allow, yes.
MS. LAMP: Okay, thank you. I don’t have anything further.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan or Mr. Hurst?
MR. DUNGAN: I do want to show him one photo.
THE COURT: Go ahead. We’ll call this defense number one.
MR. DUNGAN: Yeah, this will be defense number one.
THE COURT: Or A. Defense A.
(At 1:10 p.m. DX A marked)
RECROSS EXAMINATION (At 1:10 p.m.)
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. What’s going to be marked for identification as Defense exhibit A. Do you recognize the horse that’s portrayed in that picture?
A. Yes. That’s the paint stallion that we, that I referred to Michigan State with the upper leg injury.
Q. And as far as his body condition score in that particular photograph or the condition of his body in general, would you describe that as severely emaciated?
A. I would.
MR. DUNGAN: No other questions, Your Honor. Thank you.
THE COURT: Do you have any questions on the photo?
MS. LAMP: No, thank you.
THE COURT: