REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. Miss Cockroft, what’s your address please?
A.
Q. Which is located where?
A. Springport.
THE COURT: Green?
THE WITNESS: The color green.
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. What do you do for employment?
A. I’m unemployed at the moment.
Q. And your user name that we’ve discussed so much this morning. Where does that come from? Is that because of something you do, something your husband does?
A.
I am a registered firefighter in the state of
Q. All right. So you’re a registered fire fighter?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. What does that mean?
A. That means that I have the ability to go out and become a fireman. I can, I can stop and save your life if you’re hurt, I can do, fight a fire, I can--
Q. You’ve taken the training to qualify to get a job as a firefighter?
A. I hold five different licenses.
Q. Okay. But just haven’t been employed as a firefighter.
A. My husband is the captain and we have two children and the responsible choice is for one of us to stay home.
Q. All right. So you qualify but just haven’t done it yet.
A. Correct.
Q. All right. Do you own any horses?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Do you have much experience with horses at all?
A. Just what I’ve learned through Matt and a few friends.
Q. Okay. So you’re not what we would call a horse person.
A. No.
Q. All right. But you do know Matt Mercier.
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And what’s your relationship with him please?
A. Him and I are very close friends.
Q. How long have you known Matt?
A. Twenty years.
Q. All right. And I think you told me too he’s godfather to your daughter?
A. He’s the godfather of my daughter, yes.
Q. Okay. Is Matt a horse person?
A. Yes, he is.
Q. How do you know that?
A. Because he lives, eats, sleeps, drinks horses.
Q. And that’s just your impression of him after knowing him for twenty years.
A. Yes.
Q. All right. What do you know about Matt’s experience with horses?
A. He loves them. He’s very good with them. He does very well at shows, he takes very good care of his horses.
Q. All right.
A. They’re like his children.
Q. You’ve been around him when he’s been around horses?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. For twenty years.
A. Yes.
Q.
All right. Are you familiar with
the farm in
A. Yes, I am.
Q. How are you familiar with that?
A. I’ve gone there with my children and rode horses, I’ve brought my friends’ kids there and we’ve rode horses, and that’s where Matt’s horses are.
Q. How long have you been going out to that particular farm?
A. Since they moved in.
Q. And do you know when that was?
A. No, I do not.
Q. All right. About how many years have you been going out there?
A. I don’t have any idea.
Q. Okay.
A. No idea how long they’ve lived on that farm exactly.
Q. Have you helped Matt around there at all too?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. With what kinds of things?
A. Well, I make my kid haul manure and she has to work to get to ride, so we’ve helped feed horses and we’ve baled hay and we’ve done other things.
Q. All right. When is the last time that you were out at that farm?
A. I was out there on Tuesday, March twentieth, the day I helped feed horses when Animal Control had taken over.
Q. All right. And when is the last time you were out there before that date?
A. Probably maybe July, August. I don’t know for sure.
Q. So it had been some time in the summer of 2006?
A. Yes. Fall.
Q. The fall of 2006?
A. Yes. Somewhere around there.
Q. Okay. Can you, I’m not trying to pin you down to an exact date or anything, but can you give me a month?
A. No.
Q. Definitely before winter?
A. Yes.
Q. Definitely-—
THE COURT: Kids in school?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: The kids were in school when--
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: --you went out there last year?
THE WITNESS: Yeah, we were out there, my friend Willie and I went out there and rode maybe it was just before—-I don’t remember to be honest with you, Your Honor.
THE
COURT: But you don’t remember if the
kids were in school or not?
THE WITNESS: Well, no, because we had been out there on a
Saturday because it’s a long drive.
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Dungan?
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. All right. But definitely before winter?
A. Yes.
Q. And before it got cold out.
A. Right.
Q. All right. When you were out there at that time in 2006, how would you describe the condition of the farm at that time?
A. The condition of the farm itself? Before the gates where he had nothing to do with, it was falling down?
THE COURT: I’m sorry. What was the condition of the farm when you were there in the fall. Is that what you’re asking?
MR. DUNGAN: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. The last time that you were actually out there to see the farm.
A. It was fine. It needed to be picked up, but it was fine. We had discussed picking it up and we had discussed burning some stuff, we had discussed it.
Q. All right. Any problems with any fencing at that time?
A. No.
Q. All right. And as far as the horses that were present on that day, anything in particular that you noticed about any horses?
A. No.
Q. Any time that you have been on that farm have you seen any starving, tortured, abused horses, anything of that nature?
A. No, I have not.
Q. All right. See any horses that looked to you like they were not receiving adequate food, water, shelter, veterinary care?
A. No, I did not.
Q. From what you know about Matt and what you have seen out there, would Matt ever treat a horse in that manner?
A. No, he would not.
Q. All right. Now, at some point in 2006, did Matt come to live with your family at your house?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. When did that happen?
A. October maybe. November.
Q. Of 2006?
A. Of 2006.
Q. And lived with you until when?
A. Until March twentieth. Right around this whole thing happened he left.
Q. All right. And during the time that Matt was living with you between October or so of 2006 and March twentieth, I mean, were you aware of his comings and goings from your house?
A. Every day.
Q. How is it that you were aware of that?
A. Because twice a day he’d put on gross clothes to go do chores and then come back and bring them in my house and lay them on my front door.
Q. All right. Did he have a particular routine that he followed?
A. He’d get up in the morning, put his Carhardts on, put his boots on and go to the farm and do chores and I would call him of course because I talked to him and we’d discuss it and then he would come back when he was done and stay at the house and then he would go back later before dinner or after dinner and do them again and then come back after that.
Q. All right. Every day?
A. Every day.
Q. Particular time in the morning that he would typically leave?
A. Around eight or so.
Q. And the time that he would return?
A. It just depended on dinner. If we were having a big dinner he would wait until a little bit after dinner or he would go before dinner—-
Q. No. I mean when he left in the morning did he come back before he left for a second time?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Okay. So he leaves in the morning. What time would he typically come back after the morning time?
A. Maybe around eleven.
Q. All right. And then leave again at some time in the evening?
A. Yes, and then come back after dark usually.
Q. And be gone for about---
A. Because we’re a forty-five minute drive.
Q. And about how long would he be gone for then?
A. Couple, three, four hours.
Q.
Okay. Were you aware of what his
responsibilities were out at that farm in
A. Yes.
Q. How were you aware of that?
A. Because he told me.
Q. All right. What were his responsibilities as you understood it?
A. He was responsible for the horses, to feed them and water them and take them to the doctor and all that stuff.
Q. All right. Do you know James Henderson?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. How do you know him?
A. Just through Matt.
Q. Have you met him?
A. Yup. Yes.
Q. Other than court, say before March twentieth, when’s the last time that you saw Mr. Henderson?
A. I saw, the last time I saw Jim was at my house on June fourth of 2006.
Q. Okay. How do you know that particular date?
A. Because it was Matt’s birthday.
Q.
Okay. Any time that you have been
out on the farm in
A. Twice.
Q. All right. When is the last time, most recent time that you saw Jim Henderson on that farm?
A. I can’t even tell you. Maybe a year and a half, two years ago.
Q. Okay. Definitely not in 2007?
A. No.
Q. 2006?
A. I don’t recall, it’s been so far and few between I don’t recall.
Q. All right. And you recognize Mr. Mercier here today?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Where is he seated?
A. Right next to you.
Q. And Mr. Henderson?
A. Behind him.
MR. DUNGAN: All right. Thank you, Your Honor, I don’t have--
THE COURT: The record will reflect that she’s identified both defendants.
THE COURT: Thank you, Judge. I don’t have any other questions.
THE COURT: You mentioned seeing Mr. Henderson on the farm two times, one of which was a year and a half to two years ago. Is that right?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE
COURT: Was the time before, before that?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE
COURT: How long before that?
THE WITNESS: I don’t know.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp?
MS. LAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp will have some questions for you.
THE WITNESS: That’s fine.
CROSS EXAMINATION (at 9:21 a.m.)
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. The way I understood your testimony is that you have been to the farm sometime in the fall of 2006. Is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And additionally did you say you had been there on the twentieth of March?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay. And were those the only, the two most recent times you were there as I understood it?
A. And like when I would stop out in the front gate and speak to Matt. I was not then on the premises.
Q. That’s what I’m asking, the most recent times.
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Were there times in between those two times, Ill make it a little clearer for you, between March twentieth and sometime in the fall when you came out to ride, were there times in between that period where you were at the farm?
A. Yes.
Q. When?
A. I don’t know. I stopped and dropped off whatever and grabbed whatever and I never--
Q. Well, if it’s a forty-five minute drive from your house as I understand it, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You must have been driving out to drop something off specifically because that’s what, an hour and a half commitment to go drive something—-
A.
Unless I’m headed to
Q. All right.
A. My father was in the hospital, I, sure, I stopped and spoke to him on my way.
Q. Okay. And how many times did you do that?
A. Probably three.
Q. Three times, okay. And can you tell me approximately when those might have been?
A. No, I cannot.
Q. Can you tell me if it was before or after Halloween?
A. Before.
Q. And if your father was sick, maybe that would help you quantify it.
A. That’s what I’m trying to remember.
Q. Yeah, the time.
A. I don’t exactly remember when my dad had surgery, so I think it was before Halloween.
Q. All three times?
A. Yes.
Q. So as I understand you, if I have this right, and if I don’t I would want you to certainly correct me. You had been out to ride sometime in the fall and that you had stopped by three times after you’d been by to ride in the fall, three times after that before Halloween, and then you were there on the twentieth.
A. Correct.
Q. So there was a span of time where you were not there, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. So you would not really be able to say who was coming and going. Would that be fair to say? When you’re not there?
A. He come into my house covered with manure and--
Q. I’m not asking you to speculate. What I’m asking you very particularly--
A. I don’t know if he went there.
Q. And I’m not even talking about where Matt went, that’s not what my question is. My question is, if you’re not at the farm you don’t know who’s coming or going, whether it’s Matt, Jim or somebody else, do you?
A. Correct.
Q. That’s fair, isn’t it? Unless you have a crystal ball.
THE COURT: She’s answered it, Miss Lamp.
MS. LAMP: Okay. And I’m sure you don’t.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Billie Jo, have you had a lot of experience with horses yourself?
A. Just what I’ve had with Matt and a few friends of mine.
Q. Okay. So you’ve never had them yourself?
A. No.
Q. Never cared for them yourself except when you’ve done so with your friends.
A. Correct.
Q. And were you celebrating Matt’s birthday then on June fourth?
A. Yes.
Q. And who all was there in addition to yourself, Matt and James Henderson?
A.
My husband, my two children, I think four or five of the neighbor
children, another set of friends of mine from
MS. LAMP: Okay. Nothing further.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan, do you have any further questions?
MR. DUNGAN: No, sir.
THE
COURT: Miss Cockroft, just for
clarification. You mentioned that there were times when you traveled from your
home to
THE WITNESS: Mm-Hmm.
THE COURT: And there were three times that you would then stop at the farm. Is that right?
THE WITNESS: Right.
THE COURT: Did you say you just stopped at the gate and talked with Matt?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Why didn’t you go on to the farm then?
THE WITNESS: Because it’s a long walk and I’m lazy.
THE COURT: I mean, you could have driven your—-
THE WITNESS: No. There’s a gate and it’s locked.
THE COURT: Oh, I see.
THE WITNESS: It stops there, there’s a gate, so you can’t just drive through there.
THE COURT: So what did you do, call and--
THE WITNESS: I’d call on my cell phone and say I’m here, come meet me.
THE COURT: Okay. And there would be some objects or something that you would give to him?
THE WITNESS: We’d swap money or whatever, yeah. Just stop and say hi or…
THE COURT: Okay. Why were you there on March twentieth?
THE WITNESS: He had contacted me-—
THE COURT: He is who?
THE WITNESS: Excuse me. Matt had contacted me and said that Animal Control was on the property and that he could have someone come and do chores for him or for them, whoever, if, and so asked if my nephew and I would come out and help and I said yes.
THE COURT: Okay. When you were there on March twentieth, did you notice anything unusual about the condition of the farm?
THE WITNESS: It was frozen, it was just a winter farm. It was frozen, the ground was frozen and the horses were there, they were fine. I went in the barn, the horses were eating the hay that was in the barn and I had to get them out and..
THE COURT: They were eating the hay?
THE WITNESS: That was in the barn, yes.
THE
COURT: Okay. Do you know who provided that hay?
THE WITNESS: It was in the barn so I assumed Matt did.
THE COURT: You didn’t—-
THE WITNESS: It wasn’t like thirty bales.
THE COURT: But you hadn’t been in there since the fall though.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Okay. Who was there when you got on the farm on the twentieth?
THE WITNESS: When I arrived there it was me and my nephew and then nobody was there. We waited for an officer to come and then we waited for Officer Wheaton to arrive. We had corralled, the officer and I and my nephew started to corral the horses and then Officer Wheaton showed up just about the time we had them all in the, back in the spot.
THE
COURT: Okay, all right. Okay, thank you, Miss Cockroft. You’re excused. May she be excused?
MR. DUNGAN: She may.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp?
MS. LAMP: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Watch your step as you go down.
THE WITNESS: May I go back outside and wait?
THE COURT: You can if you’d like. You have to go back outside. Or you can go about your business. Thank you very much.
MR. DUNGAN: Miss Cockroft, let’s, just so there’s no misunderstanding. Since you’ve already testified you’re welcome to stay in here, but the judge does not want you to discuss your testimony with anyone else who may be a witness for us.
THE WITNESS: Can I stay in here?
MR. DUNGAN: You can stay in here if you want.
THE WITNESS: He told me I couldn’t stay.
MR.
DUNGAN: Did you?
THE COURT: You can’t leave. No, I don’t want, she may be called again, I
don’t know, we’re in a hearing, I don’t want her to stay.
MR. DUNGAN: Okay. Then we do what the judge said.
THE COURT: You can’t talk about your testimony to anybody either.
THE WITNESS: Okay, thank you.
(At 9:27 a.m. witness excused)