MS. LAMP: Okay. Your Honor, the People next call Officer Kathlyn Chapin to the stand.
THE COURT: Come up please. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you will give in this matter will be the truth, so help you God?
OFICER CHAPIN: I do.
THE COURT: Watch your step. The chair is on rollers, so be careful. The microphone is not going to make you any louder, so speak up loudly and distinctly for us. State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Officer Kathlyn Chapin.
THE COURT: Spell your first name.
THE WITNESS: K-a-t-h-l-y-n.
THE COURT: Spell your last.
THE WITNESS: C-h-a-p-i-n.
THE COURT: Thank you. Miss Lamp?
OFFICER KATHLYN CHAPIN
Called at 6:54 p.m. by the People, sworn by the court, testified:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Officer Chapin, where are you employed?
A.
Q. And in what capacity are you employed?
A. Animal control officer.
Q. How long have you been so employed?
A. Almost eleven years.
Q.
Did you have occasion to be involved with the Animal Control’s
impoundment of the farm at
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. And were you involved in the initial investigation of this matter?
A. No, ma’am.
Q. Okay. At some point did you become involved to the extent that you were requested by your director to respond to the ranch to assist a horse rescue?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Could you describe what the order was?
A. I was getting ready to leave work and they needed someone to meet the first aid people out at the horse ranch and so my boss sent me out there, Officer Luce sent me out there to meet with them to assist them in anything they needed and administering first aid.
Q. Okay. And approximately what time did you arrive?
A. 1725.
Q. Okay.
A. Five twenty-five.
Q. Thank you.
A. Excuse me.
Q. And what happened when you arrived there?
A. When I first got there I couldn’t, I found the vehicles of the people but I had to actually go into the barn to find the people. They were already there. And that would be Kim and Brad Chaltry I believe is how you say their name.
Q. Okay.
A. I, and then I had to walk through a lot of junk, a lot of trash, a lot of mud and pee and everything else to get to them, but I found them and then we started looking at horses.
Q. Was this your first time out here at the ranch?
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay. And could you describe your contact, I think their name is Chaltry, does that sound okay to you?
A. That’s fine.
Q. Did you know their last name at the time they were there?
A. No, I did not. Matter of fact, afterward I thought their name was Ratcliff afterward, but now I understand that is a maiden name of some sort. I only knew them as Kim and Brad.
Q. Okay. You know more about where Ratcliff came from than I do. Okay. So describe your contact with them then.
A. When I first got there we were all in amazement at what this place looked like and the words out of their mouths were things like, this is gross, this is disgusting, I can’t believe that people would actually do this to horses, stuff like that.
Q. Who was saying that, making those statements?
A. Both Brad and Kim.
Q. Okay. And what if anything else happened after that?
A. We started, basically just started looking at some horses. Little by little we would find things and just pick them up, wire and knives. We found a steak knife with the blade sticking straight up in the mud. Nails, syringes. And we’d just get them out of the way.
Q. Is this in the barn?
A. This is in the barn where the horses were.
Q. Okay. And continue on with your description of what transpired.
A. Well, we, basically we, the people who had been there before me had been feeding and watering all day and so I pretty much said, okay, we’ve got a certain amount of horses and we’ve only got so much daylight, so let’s get to it. And we started actually numbering consecutively the horses that had the, needed the most care and taking care of one horse at a time.
Q. Okay. And you say numbering, where you’re painting something on there?
A. We painted, we spray painted the numbers on the side of the horse.
Q. Whose idea was that?
A. That was Brad’s.
Q. Okay. And so what happened then?
A. Well, as he would spray a paint, a number on a horse, I would take a picture of that horse so that we wouldn’t lose which horse was which and then we would evaluate that horse as to what was wrong, they would describe to me this is wrong and that is wrong and this is what they gave them and I would write everything down they said.
Q. Okay. And, and what were you writing in?
A. I was writing in a, a little, a little notebook, one that flips up.
Q. One of those little ones that fits in your palm?
A. Yes, a little spiral bound notebook that fits in the palm of your hand.
Q. Is that what you normally use?
A. No, that’s what I just happened to have.
Q. Okay.
A. Sometimes I use bigger pieces of paper, sometimes I use littler, sometimes I write on the palm of my hand.
Q. Okay, all right.
A. But I knew I was going to be writing a lot. This is what I had and this is what I used.
Q. Okay, all right. So what happened then?
A. So we went through each one. They described for me what they thought was wrong, what they thought, you know, they needed to do right then to correct whatever they thought was wrong, I wrote it down and we went on to the next horse.
Q. So whatever treatment was administered, you were keeping track of that.
A. Track of, correct.
Q. Okay. And how many horses were treated?
A. Well, there were eight horses that were actually painted, but the first horse didn’t actually get any treatment. Actually they painted the horse before I could stop them, so we just left him as number one and went on to number two.
Q. Okay. All right. And so how many horses were treated all together then?
A. Seven.
Q. Seven, okay. And what happened after these horses were treated?
A. Well, after they were treated we basically, I went over the notes with Kim, she wanted to write down what they had done, because I was the only one keeping track of this. I said, well, that makes sense, you know, they’re going to be a witness at some point, they’re going to need to write down exactly what they did. And so I gave her my notebook so she could copy notes as to what they did to each horse. They asked me for a business card. I went back to get a business card out of my dog truck and went, started to head back toward them. They started to drive out and said they had an emergency on the farm with their sheep, they handed me my white notebook back, my little palm sized notebook and took off.
Q. And had you recorded in that notebook a name of a veterinarian?
A. Yes, I had.
Q. And why had that name made it into your notebook?
A. Because I asked them specifically what vet they were working under and they had said Dr. Herman and spelled his name out and I wrote it down in my notebook.
Q. Okay. And when they said they had the emergency and gave your notebook back, did you think there was anything bizarre or weird at that time?
A. No, there’s emergencies that happen out on farms, especially with sheep.
Q. Okay.
A. So…
Q. And—-
A. I didn’t want to keep them from their sheep.
Q.
Right. And especially if they’re
in
A. Exactly.
Q. And if any, what if anything happened at a later time? Did you go to compile the information and make a police report?
A. The next morning I went to go through my notebook and actually write out on a report what we had done to each horse and everything and I could not find that very last piece of paper, it had the vet’s name and it had the spellings of the three drugs that they had used.
Q. Okay.
A. And so I started frantically looking for this piece of paper and found out that they had actually ripped that piece of paper out of my notebook.
Q. Okay. And how did you know they had ripped that piece of paper out of your notebook?
A. Because I could see where I was writing, I had written hard enough that it imprinted on the next page and I could take a pencil and actually get the words back.
Q. So were you able to reconstruct what the stolen page said?
A. Yes.
Q. And whose name was on there?
A. Dr. Herman.
Q. Okay. And did you believe they were working under Dr. Herman then at the time you made that note in your notebook?
A. They told me they were.
Q. Did they seem to be focused solely on providing first aid or did they seem to be sidetracked?
A. No. They were very sidetracked. They continually wanted to feed and water and I kept telling them they’ve been fed, they’ve been watered, Willie was there watering as, as we were there working on the medical stuff, and they kept wanting to do this feeding and watering. I said, listen, you guys need to do the first aid, that’s what you’re here to do, we’ve got people feeding, we’ve got people watering, and this is what we need to do before we run out of daylight. And actually I went to Willie and said, will you just keep watering, whatever you do, I don’t care if there’s only this much, you know, an inch left that doesn’t have water, fill it, because I need to keep these guys going on the medical and if they’re sidetracked with the food and water they’re not going to do the medical.
Q. Okay. Because you’ve got like a limited window, like you said, of daylight at this time.
A. Correct.
Q. Was there a problem with the mares running in the barn?
A. They kept breaking into the barn. When we got there the mares were running in the barn and my understanding is that-—
Q. When you say we, who are you talking about?
A. I’m sorry. When I got there and Brad and Kim had gotten there just before me, when I had arrived and was talking to them, the mares were in the barn. And my understanding is the mares kept breaking into the barn. We kept trying to keep them out, because the studs were in there, they kept breaking back into the barn and my understanding also is after we left that night, they broke back into the barn again.
Q. Okay. So you’re talking about, when you’re saying we, you’re talking about you and Brad and Kim while you’re there the mares keep coming in the barn.
A. Yeah. So we, Brad and Kim and I and Willie got the mares out of the barn and they stayed out while we were there, we were able to keep them out. But my understanding is after all of us left that night the mares broke back in and were back in in the morning.
Q. Did you have the understanding that there had been some repair to the doors there?
A. There’s been a lot of repairs to a lot of doors.
Q. All right. And do you recall Bradley making a comment to you about a round bale that was in the pasture?
A. I do not remember any comment being made about a round bale. I honestly don’t know.
Q. Do you recall seeing a round bale in the pasture?
A. No, no, I don’t.
Q. Okay. Would you have known where a round bale in the pasture might have come from?
A. No. I have no way of knowing.
Q. You had not been out there at this point.
A. Correct.
Q. And you hadn’t really been informed because you weren’t really involved in this investigation as I understand it.
A. Correct. I was just out there to assist them.
Q. Did the horses all have water at the time that you arrived there?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And, and when I’m saying the horses, I’m talking about the barn horses, the horses out in the pasture. I mean did you see any horses without water?
A. No. I never saw any horses without-—Willie was continually watering. He, they’d been watered all day. We, Willie would let them drink down some water and then he’d go to the next one and he’d come back and fill it. But they were never left without water, no.
Q. Okay. And that’s what he’d been doing all day as you understood it.
A. Right.
Q. And did you see a horse this, some people are calling it Seven, some people are calling it Elvis, you’re probably not going to know the horse’s name, but a horse with a backward seven on its-—
A. I know what horse you’re talking about.
Q. Okay. Did you see that horse while Kim and Brad from Ponies Are Us were there that night?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Okay. And did that horse seem thin to you?
A. Very.
Q. And describe why you, why you felt that.
A. It was extremely thin. Its hips were sticking up, its ribs were sticking out. I mean, it, it looked incredibly thin and incredibly frail. I mean, just emaciated thin.
Q. Officer Chapin, are you a horse person?
A. No, I’m not.
Q. Do you know a lot about horses?
A. I know just a little.
Q. Okay. While you were there did you allow Seven to eat an unlimited amount of food?
A. No.
Q. The whole time you were there?
A. No, no. We let her eat while we were giving her the shots, the penicillin and those shots and we let her eat so that she could, she would stay calm right where she was while she was being examined, but no, she was put back into a stall.
Q. Okay. And would you, do you know enough about, is there a reason why you wouldn’t want to feed that horse continually even if it appeared to be very thin at that time?
A. I don’t know what you would call it in a horse. You feed a dog like that, they’ll throw it back up, and you know, horses I believe their stomachs will twist. I’m not sure if that’s the right term for it, but they get sick, it could kill them.
Q. So you knew that it would not be a good idea to just let him sit there and feed unlimited amount.
A. No. I wouldn’t let dogs do that. I wouldn’t let a horse do that either.
Q. Did Brad Chaltry ever indicate to you that he thought he was going to take all the horses?
A. No, never.
Q. Okay. What was the weather like on the day that you were there?
A. It was comfortable, it was warm. It was not too hot, it was not cold.
Q. Did Brad or Kim Chaltry at any time while they were there indicate that they felt that Animal Control was grossly over reacting and that this was an injustice to the owners of the horses?
A. No. Actually exactly the opposite.
Q. Do you recall yelling at Brad Chaltry?
A. No. Why would I yell at him?
Q. I don’t know, I’m just…
MS. LAMP: Nothing further. Thank you.
THE COURT: Officer, Mr. Dungan will have some questions for you. Mr. Dungan?
CROSS-EXAMINATION (at 7:08 p.m.)
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. You’re aware there were sixty-nine horses out there. Correct?
A. I’m assuming that was the count. I don’t know the exact count, but it was at the beginning.
Q. And did Kim and Brad look at, examine all of the horses?
A. They didn’t touch every horse, but they kind of looked at them.
Q. They at least made some kind of either eyeball or physical exam with every one of the sixty-nine horses?
A. I’m not going to say every one, but a good majority of them. They did not walk all the way, you know, they, they kind of walked around the pasture and kind of looked at them. They did not--could they have missed a few, yeah, it’s possible.
Q. Okay. Out of all the horses that were on the farm, eight got spray painted.
A. Yes.
Q. Only seven received treatment.
A. Yes.
Q. Seven out of sixty-nine.
A. Yes. If sixty-nine is the correct number, yes.
Q. Now, you didn’t see anybody steal that page from your notebook, right?
A. No, but it is missing.
Q. So of course you called them up and said, what did you do with that page of my notebook.
A. No. I went to my supervisor.
Q. And then?
A. And she took note of the fact that that page was missing.
Q. And then?
A. I don’t know. I don’t know what she did after that. It’s up to her.
Q. You didn’t do anything about it either.
A. No. We talked with the prosecutor and we felt that it was best just to leave it alone right then.
Q. Okay. When you say that Kim and Brad said they were working under Dr. Herman, what did you understand working under to mean or do you not know?
A. Well, I do know. Working under a doctor means exactly that, that the doctor knows you’re out here, the doctor is, has advised you of what you can and can’t do and has authorized you to give medication. That’s what working under means.
Q. And so you’re saying a vet has authority to tell another person who doesn’t work for him or has no relationship with his office what they can and cannot do?
A. I don’t know if the vet has the authority or not. I don’t know what kind of jurisdiction the vet works under. However, a lot of vets will give farmers and people they know antibiotics and things and say this is what you need to do and they trust those people to do it.
Q. Sure. That don’t mean they work for them.
A. I never said they worked for him.
Q. Okay. So working and working under is something different.
A. Working for means getting paid. Working under means I have the authority from that vet to do something.
Q. Or at least the instruction.
A. Yeah. I guess instruction could be a good word.
Q. I don’t know if authority is probably the right word, you probably mean instruction?
A. That would work.
Q. Okay, all right. You were there on March twenty-first, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. With Kim and Brad.
A. Correct. And their, Brad’s stepdaughter I think it is.
Q. Okay. And you say Elvis and who we also call Lucky Seven was emaciated. Right?
A. Correct.
Q.
Now you’re aware that the day before on March twentieth the two vets
from the Department of Agriculture in
A. I do not know. I wasn’t part of that part of the investigation.
Q. Okay. You haven’t heard nothing about it, don’t know nothing about it.
A. No, actually I hadn’t.
Q. Okay. You’re not a vet.
A. Nope.
Q. All right. Would you grant me that the two vets from the Department of Agriculture know more about horses than you do?
A. Oh, I would tell you definitely. I am not a horse person, I know how to ride them and that’s about it.
Q. You would defer to whatever opinion they had about particular animals on that farm. Correct?
A. The Department of Ag vets, yes.
Q. Yes. Okay. And if both of their reports mentioned absolutely nothing about that particular horse.
A. I don’t know whether they mentioned it or not. I couldn’t tell you.
Q. I’m telling you they don’t.
A. That’s fine.
Q. You would defer to them.
A. I would defer to a vet, yes. I am not a vet. I am a dog cop who knows a thin horse when she sees one.
MR. DUNGAN: All right. I don’t have any other questions, Your Honor, thank you.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp, anything further?
MS. LAMP: No.
THE COURT: Where’s the notebook?
THE WITNESS: It’s in…
THE COURT: Where’s the notebook? It’s in the same condition as it was before, officer?
THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes, it is.
THE COURT: I want to see it.
THE WITNESS: Can I get down to get it?
THE COURT: Sure. Have you seen this, Mr. Dungan?
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Will you show us what you’re talking about?
THE WITNESS: These are the last pages of this horse number eight. The missing page was in here and this is where I got the information back. And please keep in mind I halfway knew the vet’s name to begin with. I knew it was a common name and it started with an H, so it was easy to retrieve. It is hard to see. I will give you that.
FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. Where does the stuff about this case start? Is it--
A. I believe right at the beginning.
Q. Raid for flying insect is okay for pregnant mares?
A. That’s what Brad told me.
Q. Okay.
A. Everything that was written in there was what was said to me by Brad and Kim.
Q. Need auction or cattle stickers. What does that mean?
A. He was telling me that the spray paint would only last so long on the horses and--
Q. Oh, just so we can identify the--
A. Yeah, get some cattle stickers so that they would, it wouldn’t come off.
Q. And then you wrote right on the bottom of the first page the name of the medications and what kind-—
A. I actually wrote that afterward, after I had retrieved it off the back. If you look, it’s actually a different pen.
Q. Did you ask Brad and Kim to do a report?
A. I, yeah, I did. I told them that it, they were probably going to have to write something up and that’s why she was copying down my notes.
Q. Did you get one?
A. Nope.
Q. Did you follow up on that?
A. I was told not to.
Q. By who?
A. My superior.
Q. Why?
A. That’s up to her, I don’t know.
Q. Did she tell you why?
A. No. She said don’t worry about it, I’ve got it under control.
Q.
What’s this
A.
At one point Henderson’s sisters showed up on the farm, wanted to see
the horses, wanted to know what was going on.
I wrote down their license plate and they said they were James
Henderson’s sisters, so I wrote down
MS. LAMP: Was that on the same day?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: I think we’re at thirty-three, exhibit thirty-three? I think. Okay. That notebook that was presented by Officer Chapin has been marked as People’s proposed exhibit thirty-three. Unless there’s objection the court will admit thirty-three. Any objection?
MS. LAMP: Certainly not, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan?
MR. DUNGAN: No, sir.
THE COURT: Thirty-three is admitted.
(At 7:15 p.m. PX 33 marked, admitted)
THE COURT: Okay. Anything further of Officer Chapin? Anything further, Mr. Dungan?
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Okay. May Officer Chapin be excused?
MR. DUNGAN: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You’re excused, officer. Thank you very much.
(At 7:16 p.m. witness excused)