THE COURT: Raise your right hand please. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you will give at this hearing will be the truth, so help you God?
MS. BARNES: Yes.
THE COURT: Come on around. Watch your step coming up. The chair is on rollers, so be careful.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: The microphone is not going to make you any louder, so make sure you speak up loudly and distinctly for us.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Vera Jane Barnes.
THE COURT: Spell your last name please.
THE WITNESS: B-a-r-n-e-s.
THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Dungan?
VERA
JANE BARNES
Called at 12:58 p.m. by the Defense, sworn by the court, testified:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. Miss Barnes, are you a horse person?
A. Oh, yes, I am. Live and breathe horses. And I’ve had horses all my life.
Q. All right. I want you to tell the judge about your experience with horses, I mean, essentially from the beginning to where we are here today.
A.
Okay. When I was a child my
family had horses so I grew up with horses, and showed them. Started out showing in 4-H and then when I was
twenty I moved to
Q. And you’re involved with the stuff that’s not so fun too as far as the day to day care?
A. Yup. I take care of nine horses at my own house and I do it all. I put the hay in the barns, take the manure out of the barn.
Q. Get those kids doing that.
A. I’ve tried, but…
Q. And do you know the gentleman seated next to me on my right?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Who is that?
A. Matt Mercier.
Q. All right. What’s your relationship with Matt?
A. Well, I’m sort of responsible for Matt getting in this predicament I guess because I got him interested in horses about fifteen years ago and I helped him purchase his first horse, Steady, and I’ve been friends with Matt ever since. And he’s taught me in the meantime a lot about horses and I’ve taught him a lot about horses.
Q. You guys go back about fifteen years together you said?
A. Yup, about fifteen years.
Q. All right. Is Matt a horse person too?
A. Oh, yes. He’s, he lives, breathes horses also and he’s always looking for more knowledge. He’s always going to horse shows, talking to horse people. When I have questions on an injury or a horse problem, the first person I call is hey, Matt, have you heard of this, and if he hasn’t, he says let me call around, let me look on the internet, I’ll find out what I can find for you, and he comes back and a lot of times when I have injuries of my own at my barn if I can’t, like it’s on a weekend or something, I can’t get a hold a vet, Matt’s the first person I call and he’ll come over and we’ll diagnose it together and decide if it’s something that needs to be like an emergency call right away or if it’s something that we can treat or wait till Monday.
Q. Okay.
A. This weekend I actually had him out. My farrier on Saturday was giving my horse, trimming his feet and there was blood all over and I’m like, oh, my god, and it was again on the weekend so what do I do, I call Matt. And Matt came out and said what we have to do is pack it. We did a sugar-iodine pack and wrapped his foot up and the person who owns the horse, Bill, called the vet on Monday and he said, you know, just keep that and wrapped and he’ll be fine. So again I used him for that.
Q. Okay. And do you have Matt take care of your horses when you’re away sometimes too?
A. Yup. When I, when I leave on vacation Matt always comes over and takes care of them and cleans up after them and I always feel really good. I know he doesn’t forget to feed them. If I need any medical, medication to be administered, he does that and he knows his horses and he knows my horses.
Q.
And are you familiar with the farm in
A. Yes, I am.
Q. How is it you’re familiar with that?
A. Well, I’ve delivered a baby there once when Matt was out of town and Jimmy was out of town.
Q. Are we talking about one of your kids, or a foal?
A. One of his foals.
Q. I thought it was going to be a real (indiscernible) some day.
THE COURT: A foal.
THE WITNESS: Yeah. So-–
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. Let me slow you down for a second.
A. Okay.
Q. What do you know about the history of that ranch? I mean as far as when it started.
Q. You know, it seems like he’s been there, I don’t know, eight or nine years. I’m not sure how long he’s been there.
Q. All right. But did you know about it from the very beginning?
A. Yes.
Q. And had you been out there from the very beginning?
A. Yes.
Q. And then typically I mean how often do you visit out there?
A. Well, he usually comes to my house for some reason, but I go out there several times every year. We, I like to bring people out, I bring my friends out when he has all of his foals, we go out and check out his foals, and then throughout the summer I’ll go back and check and see how his babies are doing. There’s been times when, you know, I go out and we help him take pictures of horses and I help feed his horses as well when he’s out of town. So, you know, it always varies on, there are sometimes a lot, sometimes I’m there a little bit.
Q. And when you’re there are you able to observe the conditions of the farm?
A. Yes.
Q. And to observe the conditions of the various horses that are there?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. When is the last time you were out there?
A. Okay. Well, Matt called me when his horses were out right before they seized the property and asked me if I could get right over there and see if I could find them and help put them back in. And we were eating dinner at the time and I said no problem and told the guys to save my food and off I went.
Q. Okay.
A. And got there and he showed up shortly after I got there and there was another gentleman that was there to help us, and the horses weren’t very far and they just sort of, we said, come on guys, get back in or--
Q. How many horses was it?
A. It was a small herd. I didn’t count them. Maybe, I don’t know, fifteen, ten, could have been twenty. I’m not really sure.
Q. And where were they when you got there?
A.
They got out of a fence where I always come when I park on
Q. Right.
A. They were just down a little bit. The fence was down and they just walked out and thy were just moseying around and--
Q. So were they across the street from the farm?
A. No. They were on the same street as the farm is at.
Q. But across the street from the farm?
A. No. They were, if you show me a picture, they were just down. We didn’t have to cross the street because we parked—-
Q. Oh, so they were on the same side of the road as the farm.
A. Yeah, same side of the road.
Q. Gotcha.
A. They hadn’t gone, I mean they hadn’t even gone past their property. They were just sort of out of the fence.
Q. All right. So you were able to assist Matt getting those horses back where they belonged.
A. Yup. And they just calmly walked right in.
Q. All right. And as part of doing that, did you, were you there long enough to look around the entire farm or see all the horses?
A. Yup. I put them back in and we moseyed them in and I put them into the area that they normally aren’t in, but the fence fell down so they could get into that area then and he said, well, he can get them, put them back farther and stuff or where he was going to put them, I don’t know, and I left.
Q. Okay.
A. Went back to dinner.
Q. When was this? Is this in March?
A. Yeah, it was in March. I think it was the Monday before they showed up.
Q. Okay. When is the last time you were there before that?
A. I fed his horses for him in November.
Q. Of 2006?
A. 2006.
Q. All right. And why were you there to feed his horses?
A. Because Matt was at a seminar and Jimmy was out of town.
Q. And when you say Jim, who are you talking about?
A. Jim Henderson.
Q. How many days did you have to feed the horses?
A. I fed them, I think I came in and fed them the night shift and then the day and then the morning shift.
Q. All right. So three separate shifts over two days?
A. Four separate shifts.
Q. Four shifts over two days?
A. It was a night, a day and a morning, or day, or morning and then a night and then another morning.
Q. All right. And for each shift, how long are you actually out there for?
A. Oh, it took me at least an hour.
Q. All right. And while you’re out there are you able to observe the entire farm?
A. Yup, because I fed all the horses. Well, I didn’t have to feed all the horses, because the horses that were out on pasture, they had round bales, but he just wanted me to check to make sure that the round bales weren’t down and I had to check to make sure water was, that they had water and stuff. And the horses in the barn that were in the stalls I had to hay them and make sure they had water as well.
Q. All right. Do you believe that you saw all or most of the horses during the four shifts that you were out there?
A. Yes.
Q. In the fall of 2006?
A. I would have to think I did.
Q. All right. What were the condition of the horses in the fall of 2006 as you saw them?
A. They all looked fine. I had, thought nothing of it. They were just, you know, a bunch of brood mares and he had a couple old horses and lots of babies. They all looked healthy and…
Q. Did you see any horses that had body condition scores that would have caused you concern?
A. No. And I would have I would have told him. Because it’s just, I would have told him. We’re friends and that’s what friends do.
Q. Did you see any horses with any obvious injuries that needed to be treated?
A. No, no horses needed to be treated.
Q. Any horses that were lame or limping?
A. No.
Q. Any horses that were starving or emaciated?
A. Definitely not.
Q. All right. And as far as the condition of the farm in the fall of 2006, how would you describe that?
A. Well, he had them pastured off. There was a fence that ran off and separated the horses off in the fall when I was there and so that was up. You know, he has his typical binder twine and this plastic from the round bales which, you know, is not the prettiest, but it’s not unsafe to them. And he had, there were some piles of wood but there was no nails in it, I never saw any nails at his place.
Q. All right. Debris-wise, nothing that caused you any concern?
A. Nothing that would hurt a horse, that I would feel that would hurt a horse.
Q. Shelter-wise nothing that caused you any concern?
A. Nope. I mean, horses, you know, they’re, they’re herd animals, that’s what makes them the happiest and his horses were happy. They’re out in a herd with a bunch of friends and…
Q. Do you recall when was the last time you were at the farm before late fall of 2006?
A. Oh, it would have been shortly before that because we were taking pictures of one of stud horses, Jet.
Q. All right.
A. So I was out there taking pictures.
Q. And again, same question. Any problem with any of the horses or--
A. No.
Q. –-the farm itself?
A. Nope.
Q.
All right. At any time that you
have been out to the farm in
A. God, no.
Q. Or any dangerous condition on the farm or about the farm itself?
A. No.
Q. All right. Would you hesitate in any way to point out something to Matt or criticize him in any way if you saw a problem with a horse or the farm, something that bothered you?
A. No, I wouldn’t hesitate. I would definitely tell him.
Q. How would you describe Matt as a caretaker of horses?
A. He’s very knowledgeable. He cares about his horses. He’s always got, he takes good care of his horses, you know, he takes I guess, I don’t know how to say it.
Q. You’ve trusted him with your own horses.
A. I trust him with my own horses.
Q. All right.
A. He’s a good guy. He loves horses.
Q. You know Jim Henderson.
A. Yes.
Q.
All right. When is the last time
that you saw Jim Henderson at the
A. Well, I don’t see a lot of him, and I’m friends with Matt and I, I don’t really know Jim. I’ve met him a few times over the years. Not a whole lot, you know, he showed up at my house once or twice with Matt and I’ve seen him there at the farm just a few times.
Q. All right. Do you have a recollection of seeing Jim at the farm at any time in 2007?
A. Oh, not, no.
Q. At any time in 2006?
A. I don’t think so.
Q. And what’s your understanding of who has the day to day responsibility for taking care of the horses out at Turn Three Ranch?
A. That would be Matt.
MR. DUNGAN: All right. Thank you. I don’t have any other questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp will have some questions for you, Miss Barnes.
MS. LAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION (At 1:12 p.m.)
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Miss Barnes, how many times were you at the farm in 2006?
A. You know, I can’t give you a definite number, but I went and saw babies in the spring and in the fall and then, or in the summertime, and we went and took some pictures of his horse Jet and then I fed them for him in the fall as well. That would have been 2006.
Q. Okay. So would that have been three times that you went there plus the two additional days that you were there twice to feed and water the horses?
A. It could have been that, it could have been more though, because as with friends you don’t really count how many times you come and visit them.
Q. And I understand that, but also I understood your testimony to be that most times you said for some reason Matt came to your house rather than you going to his farm.
A. Yeah, lots of times we talk on the phone, I’ll call him usually four or five times a week--
Q. Sure.
A. And that’s his—-
Q. But that’s how I understand your testimony. Was that an accurate statement that you made at the time you made it?
A. Yeah. I could have been there a couple more, I can’t give you a definite number though, but I know I was there to feed and I know I was there to take pictures and we saw, came and saw babies. I probably took my niece over there, I usually take my niece over there to see the babies.
Q. Okay. And so we have at least five times you were there in 2006.
A. At least.
Q. And would you say, since you’re not quite sure on the number that it was between five or ten, or more than ten times that you were there?
A. It was probably between five and ten.
Q. Between five and ten, okay. And how many times have you been there in 2007?
A. Well, two thousand--I just came there to put his horses away.
Q. So just the one time.
A. One time.
Q. And how long were you there on that occasion?
A. Well, I waited because we couldn’t find them because we thought they were farther away than what they were, so we were out looking in an area where someone said they were when they weren’t, but by the time we spotted the horses it took us maybe, I don’t know, about ten minutes to probably herd them on in and then I stayed another I don’t know, ten or, ten minutes or something. I don’t know. We put them away and, it wasn’t a, it was under an hour.
Q. Okay. And when you had the occasion to be there to feed and water the horses in November, do you recall how many horses you observed in the barn on that time?
A. He, I believe he had his two stud horses in there and he had some young horses in there that I had to throw, I think it was his young horses, that I had to throw the square bales to. But they were in the one, I think they were in the one that they can come and go, like, you know, there are so many times, the horses were in all these different spots I can’t, I can’t give you one hundred percent that’s where they were, but I was feeding horses in the barn and I think they were his young ones, but…
Q. And as I understand it—-well, let me ask you. Was that the most recent time in 2006 that you were there before you came in 2007?
A. That would have been the last time in two thousand-—because it was in the fall.
Q. Okay. So that would have been the last time you were there before you came to help get the horses back in?
A. Yes.
Q. So that would have been the most recent time you were at there.
A. Yes.
Q. And you spent as I understood from your testimony--
A. An hour.
Q. So approximately four hours there over two days.
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay.
THE COURT: Yes?
THE WITNESS: Yes. It’s a yes, okay.
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. And even though you’re saying that you’d been there so many times, it’s hard to remember how many horses were in the barn, being that that was the last time you were there and that you’d spent such a great amount of time there over a period of two days, can you tell me how many approximately horses you observed in that barn?
A. Well, there was Jet and there was Buggy and I’m going to say, boy, maybe ten.
Q. In addition to the two, or total?
A. In addition to the two.
Q. So approximately twelve?
A. Probably, yes.
Q. Do you know the names of those horses?
A. You know, I don’t know the names of any of the horses except for Jet and Buggy.
Q. Okay. Can you describe the horses?
A. There are so many of them. No, I could not tell you. He’s got so many horses that I could not tell you and be definite on that I was being accurate, so I would have to say no, I cannot.
Q. Okay. I understand that. Let me ask you if there was anything distinguishing about the other horses that were in the barn, such as the age, color?
A. No, no.
MS. LAMP: Thank you. Nothing further.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan?
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Miss Barnes, you mentioned for us that you had met Mr. Henderson. Is that correct?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: The gentleman sitting, blue tie?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And just at your house, your residence?
THE WITNESS: I’ve seen him at the barn a couple times throughout th—-
THE
COURT: At
THE WITNESS: Yeah, because I’ve known him basically as much as I’ve known Matt.
THE
COURT: Okay. So you saw him at the farm at
THE WITNESS: I have, yes, but not…
THE COURT: What was your understanding from Mr. Mercier or Mr. Henderson as his relationship to that farm?
THE WITNESS: Well, I know a lot of them were his horses or they were all his horses, I’m not sure which.
THE COURT: So all those were his horses?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: So Matt was just managing the farm then for Mr. Henderson as you understand it?
THE WITNESS: Yeah. Matt likes to ride and he just loves horses and that was… Matt treats them like they’re all his though.
THE COURT: How often would you say that you saw Mr. Henderson on the farm? You say in 2007 you didn’t go to the farm until March twelfth.
THE WITNESS: Yes, so that doesn’t really count.
THE COURT: So back to 2006.
THE WITNESS: I don’t think I saw him there. Several years ago.
THE COURT: Clearly at the farm?
THE WITNESS: Clearly at the farm.
THE COURT: And it’s clearly your understanding--
THE WITNESS: Last time I remember seeing him was, I can’t even remember. It was, it could have been when Patty, my four year old was born. I’m not sure.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Dungan, any other questions?
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp, any further questions?
MS. LAMP: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay, Miss Barnes, thank you very much. May she be excused?
MS. LAMP: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Watch you step going down. You’re excused to go about your business. Thank you very much.
(At 1:18 p.m. witness excused)
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan?
Step up here, ma’am. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you will give in this matter will be the truth, so help you God?
MS. PATZER: I do.
THE COURT: Come on up. Watch your step coming up. The chair is on rollers, so be careful. The microphone is not going to make you any louder, so make sure you speak up loudly and distinctly for us. Okay?
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: State your full name.
THE WITNESS: Shannon Marie Patzer.
THE COURT: How do you spell your last name?
THE WITNESS: P-a-t-z—e-r.
THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. Dungan?
MR. DUNGAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
SHANNON
MARIE PATZER
Called at 1:19 p.m. by Defense, sworn by the court, testified:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DUNGAN:
Q. Miss Patzer, are you a horse person?
A. I am. I don’t own any of my own.
Q. How long have you been a horse person?]
A. All my life.
Q. What’s your experience with horses? Essentially if you’d describe it for the judge. Take it from the beginning and up to today.
A. Well, since I was a little girl I’ve always been interested in horses. I lived about a quarter of a mile from the Waterloo Riding Stable and I began working there when I was eleven or twelve years old, you know, just doing barn maintenance, helping to feed. I worked there until I graduated from high school.
Q. What is the Waterloo Riding Stables?
A.
It was a riding stable that’s on
Q. Okay.
A. But it was on state of Michigan land so they made sure that everything was ship-shape, all the horses were intact, you had to have a state park sticker to get on to it.
Q. So what was the purpose of it? Is it for people to come out and just ride their horses?
A. It was a public riding stable for people to come out and take hour long rides, whoever. You didn’t have to have any experience, could come out and ride.
Q. And the riding stables would provide the horses to be ridden?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you bring your own horse out there to ride if you wished?
A. Not leaving from our place.
Q. All right. You worked there, what, basically from the age of eleven or so until you graduated from high school?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And was that a year round job for you?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And I’m assuming it was part time.
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And what did your duties include when you were working at the riding stables?
A. I was in charge of making sure that all the maintenance was done, all the fences were fixed. If something was wrong in one of the stalls I was in charge of fixing it. I was in charge of, you know, helping to load, we had grain and sweet feed and all of the hay, I went to get hay and I unloaded all the hay and put it in the barn. I also helped to brush out the horses, hold the horses for the farrier, check for injuries when we fed in the morning, fed the horses at night.
Q. Pretty much anything.
A. Pretty much.
Q. All right. And then what horse experience do you have after you, your term ended with Waterloo Riding Stables?
A. It’s just been with Matt and traveling with Matt to, and people associated with Matt at the horse shows and…
Q. Okay. When you say Matt, who are you talking about?
A. Matt Mercier.
Q. All right. And you see him seated where?
A. Right next to you.
Q. Okay. I got to ask for the record. I know you know where he is. How did you come to meet Matt?
A. I was in high school, he worked at a gas station.
Q. Okay. And then how did this mutual interest in horses develop with you two?
A. He knew that I worked at the riding stable and we became friends and as he became more involved with horses, you know, it just kind of developed along with our friendship. We had a friendship before he was really into horses and it’s continued for fifteen years now.
Q. Okay. And tell us about your fifteen year experience with Matt.
A. Matt is a great person. I do—-
Q. I mean as far as what the two of you have done that’s horse related.
A. We’ve traveled all over the country taking horses to be bred, picking them up for being bred, spending time at his farm, you know, feeding, watering, fixing fences. Anything and everything horse related.
Q. Okay. Do you own any horses yourself?
A. No, I do not.
Q.
You’re familiar with the farm out in
A. I am.
Q. Turn Three Ranch?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. How are you familiar with that place?
A. I’ve known Matt since before he had that place. Or since they were leasing that place.
Q. And were you made aware when they leased it?
A. I became aware of it.
Q. I mean, have you been involved in that, with that farm essentially since the beginning?
A. Yes.
Q. And obviously been out there before?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. And I’m not asking for an exact number from you, but can you tell me approximately how often you’re out there?
A. Once every other month. It came and went in spurts. I spent four years in the military, so--
Q. Okay.
A. –-when I was on leave I’d spent time there and over the years I’ve spent many, many days there.
Q. All right. And when you’re out there are you able to observe the farm and its conditions?
A. Yes.
Q. And the horses and their conditions?
A. Yes.
Q. And over the years have you seen changes in the farm?
A. Yes.
Q. Changes in the horses?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. When is the last or most recent time that you were out at Turn Three Ranch?
A. I was there the end of December and in mid February.
Q. Okay. Let’s take mid February first. What was your purpose in going out there in mid February?
A. I was looking for Matt.
Q. Was he there?
A. No.
Q. Was that made obvious to you fairly quickly?
A. I spent about ten, fifteen minutes there.
Q. Did you get past the gate?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. Walked around?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn’t find Matt apparently.
A. No.
Q. How long were you there total?
A. Ten or fifteen minutes.
Q. Did you have an opportunity to observe conditions of the farm in any detail or conditions of horses in any detail?
A. Yes. I walked up through the gate and I walked up, you know, towards the barns, you know, looking for him, looking for the truck to see if he was around. I went into the barn to see if he was in there and, you know, I saw the horses that were in the barn and, you know, I went and said hi to Buggy because, you know, I always say hi to Buggy. He’s probably my favorite horse there so I always say hi to him, and he had hay in his stall and he had water, you know, and then I came back out of the barn and I looked around in the pasture and, you know, I saw horses. I didn’t see Matt or the truck, but the horses had, you know, had round bales of hay and, you know, I saw that there was fresh tracks from the truck so I knew that Matt had been there, I just missed him.
Q. Okay. And anything that you saw in February of ’07 about the condition cause you concern for the safety of the horses?
A. No.
Q. And any of the horses that you--I understand you weren’t there to examine each and every horse. But any horse that you happened to see anything about their health or body condition score cause you any particular kind of concern?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And then when were you there before then? What’s the most recent time?
A. End of December, basically the same thing, I was looking for Matt, spent the same amount of time, saw the same things, did the same thing, walked up, you know, towards the barn and the pasture, didn’t see Matt, you know, saw horses, they all looked, you know, healthy. I saw, you know, food, and there was water. The last time that I was there when anybody else was there and I spent a significant amount of time was the end of August of ’06.
Q. All right. Tell us about that.
A. I’d been spending a lot of time out there. There, Matt had had an injury and he needed some extra help for the summer.
Q. What happened to Matt?
A. He broke his leg. So I went and spent some time out there. When he had the injury I actually stayed there to help feed and water the horses so that he could rest, and then—-
Q. How long did you stay there for?
A. I spent two weeks there continuously right after he broke his leg.
Q. All right. Does that mean sleeping there too?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So when you say two weeks continuously, it’s continuous.
A. Oh, yes.
Q. All right. Was Matt able to do any of the work, chores with the horses himself?
A. No.
Q. So you were the fill in Matt?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. As far as that Turn Three Ranch is concerned, what’s your understanding of who was in charge of the day to day care of those horses?
A. Matt.
Q. At any time that you had been to the farm have you seen any starving, tortured, neglected, abused horses?
A. No.
Q. If you had seen something about a horse or a condition of the farm that bothered you, would you hesitate to point that out to Matt, talk to him about it, let him know?
A. I wouldn’t, it would never even cross my mind to not say something to him about a horse being injured or not looking right.
Q. Have you had that come up with Matt since you’ve known him?
A. I’ve seen injuries before, you know, that I wasn’t, didn’t know if had seen, or, you know, and I’ve said something to him and then he would explain to me, oh, well, this is what happened and this is what’s going on with it. So yes, I have.
Q. How would you describe Matt as a caretaker of horses?
A. Excellent. He’s dependable, he’s very knowledgeable, very experienced. We never, you know, I’ve had a question about something, he’s always explained it to me.
Q. Would you trust him with horses of your own?
A. Yes, definitely.
Q. Do you know who Jim Henderson is?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. How do you know Jim?
A. I’ve met Jim through my friendship with Matt.
Q.
Have you seen Jim out at the
A. I have.
Q. When is the last time that you saw him out there?
A. The end of August.
Q. Tell me about that.
A. It was just a quick, you know, hi, hello. I didn’t really talk to him very much. But I did personally see him.
MR. DUNGAN: Thank you, Your Honor. I don’t have any other questions.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp will have some questions for you, Miss Patzer.
Miss Lamp?
MS. LAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You’re welcome.
CROSS EXAMINATION (At 1:29 p.m.)
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Miss Patzer.
A. Yes.
Q. Where was it that you stayed for two weeks?
A. In the horse trailer. In the sleeping quarters.
Q. Oh, you stayed, actually stayed at the farm.
A. Yes, ma’am.
Q. Okay, I wasn’t clear about that, okay.
A. Oh, sorry.
Q. That’s all right. The other question I have for you is have you participated in any of this web site blogging type thing about this case on the internet?
A. I’m aware that it’s going on. I think someone may have asked one question that I answered.
Q. And what is—-are you on the Barrel Horse web site?
A. Yes, I do have…
Q. What is your user name?
A. My user name is CSB Sharke.
Q. C…
A. SB Sharke.
Q. Can you spell that for me?
A. S-h-a-r--- It’s CSB S-h-a-r-k-e.
Q. Just one E.
A. Mm-Hmm.
MS. LAMP: All right. Thank you, Miss Patzer. I have no further questions.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan?
MR. DUNGAN: Nothing further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Miss Patzer, you mentioned that you saw Jim at the farm and the last time was the end of August, 2006.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Broken leg period of time, is that right?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: What was your understanding of Jim’s relationship to the farm?
THE WITNESS: That Jim mostly was in charge financially, he was the owner of the horse. Horses.
THE COURT: Horses?
THE WITNESS: I said horse, I mean horses.
THE COURT: Sure. When before August of 2006, the end of August, 2006, did you last see Jim at the farm?
THE WITNESS: (No audible response)
THE COURT: Or when were you last there before August of 2006, let me ask it that way.
THE WITNESS: A couple weeks before that.
THE COURT: Was Jim there then?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: How often were you there the summer of 2006?
THE WITNESS: Fairly often.
THE
COURT: During that summer then when you
were there fairly often, was Jim there at any time? Besides the end of August as you told us?
THE WITNESS: I don’t remember seeing him.
THE COURT: You said that, testified here that Jim, it was your understanding he was in charge of the farm financially and owned the horses. Correct?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: How did you learn that?
THE WITNESS: Through my friendship with Matt and…
THE COURT: Had you ever talked to Jim about his relationship to the farm?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: When you were staying there for two weeks, this is the time that you slept there in the trailer and such.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE
COURT: Jim never said, what are you
doing there or how’s things going, or can I get you anything, buy you anything?
THE WITNESS: Not that I recall.
THE COURT: Did you need any supplies or any feed or anything for the horses during that time?
THE WITNESS: Matt and I went and got hay. Matt—-
THE COURT: There wasn’t a thing that you approached Jim—-
THE WITNESS: No. I did not approach Jim during that time.
THE
COURT: Do you know if Matt approached
Jim?
THE COURT: I don’t know.
THE COURT: But you weren’t present if he did. You didn’t go with Matt to Jim and say—-
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: We need money for this, that or the other thing.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Did you do this for free?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE
COURT: All right. Mr. Dungan?
MR. DUNGAN: No.
THE COURT: Miss Lamp?
FURTHER CROSS EXAMINATION(At 1:33p.m.)
BY MS. LAMP:
Q. Did Matt stay on the farm with you?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Did you understand that he normally would live there?
A. I wasn’t aware of where he was living at the time. It’s not something we discussed. I would see him at the farm.
Q. Would you get a hold of him anywhere else?
A. On his cell phone.
Q. Yeah. You’re saying you have no idea where he lived? Not even a general idea?
A. He’s had several places over the years. I’ve never been concerned with where he lived at. I could usually call him or find him at the farm.
Q. Right. Well, most people know where their friends live. I don’t think that’s unusual, that’s why I was asking. But it’s not something you had knowledge of.
A. Most of his time is spent at the farm so I never really—-and he had a job where he worked nights, so that’s where you could find him overnight.
Q. What job was that?
A. Dawn Farms.
Q. And when was that?
A. I don’t know how long he was there.
Q. Was it last year?
A. Beginning of last year he was still there.
Q. Okay. We looked through here and I found a couple of things, proposed web site names that you had put on the internet about, how about The Truth Turn Three Ranch dot come, or Animal Controls Close dot com. Did you create either one of those web sites?
A. No.
Q. Were those just names that you were suggesting?
A. Yes.
Q. Why were you making a suggestion like that?
A. I was angry and upset about how things were being treated with the situation at the farm. I’ve never seen anything in all of my years of dealing with Matt and the farm and his horses to lead me to--
Q. Yes—-
A. –-to believe that he should be being charged with any type of abuse, animal abuse charge.
Q. So you were angry about that.
A. Yes.
Q. Are you angry about it today?
A. I am still angry and upset about it, yes.
MS. LAMP: I have nothing further. Thank you.
MR. DUNGAN: No, sir.
THE COURT: All right, Miss Patzer. Thank you very much. You may step down. May she be excused?
MR. DUNGAN: Yes.
MS. LAMP: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You’re excused from your subpoena obligations. Watch your step as you go down and go about your business.
MS. PATZER: Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you, ma’am.
(At 1:35 p.m. witness excused)
MR. DUNGAN: Your Honor, that will exhaust my available witnesses for today.
THE COURT: And we still don’t think that the student could be here now?
MR. DUNGAN: No, in fact, you, he stepped out and called her.
THE COURT: I know that. You didn’t bother to check and see if she--
MR. DUNGAN: No, Judge, I talked to her—-
THE COURT: Students skip classes all the time.
MR. DUNGAN: No, Judge. I talked to her last night on the telephone and she had told me that she could get here between two and three. And I didn’t realize yesterday that we were going to stop at two thirty.
THE
COURT: I know. The point is that students skip class all the
time. Okay. All right.
The other two witnesses from
MR. DUNGAN: They’re due back the twenty-sixth of June.
THE COURT: What does that week look like for you guys?
MR. DUNGAN: Your Honor, that’s the week I have a nonrefundable vacation scheduled.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. DUNGAN: I’m back for the first week of July.
MS. LAMP: Your Honor, I’m only here for the first couple days of that week, first week in July, and then I’m gong for a week and a half.
MR. DUNGAN: Are you still here on Tuesday the third?
MS. LAMP: Yes.
THE COURT: When’s the student available?
MR. DUNGAN: Your Honor, she’s on rotations with the farms. I’m not going to tell you I’ve got her schedule memorized. But obviously the next day is going to be our last day and come heck or high water she’s going to have to be here.
THE COURT: Well, we do have time—-you’re gone tomorrow.
MS. LAMP: Yes.
THE COURT: What’s the nature of her testimony, Mr. Dungan?
MR. DUNGAN: Very similar to the last two witnesses, both in content and time.
THE COURT: You have obligations in other courts on what days?
MS. LAMP: On Mondays and Tuesdays, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. LAMP: We’ve been spilling over to some Thursdays too, but I don’t know which ones.
THE COURT: Is Wednesday the twentieth, Wednesday afternoon?
MS. LAMP: Wednesday, June twentieth, yes.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan? For the student?
MR. DUNGAN: Sure, yeah, if we want to try to squeeze that in.
THE COURT: I’d just as soon do that.
MR. DUNGAN: Okay.
THE COURT: And keep the thing at least moving that direction then. And then Jennifer, you’re gone basically the week of the fourth? Oh, no, starting the fourth…
MS. LAMP: Starting the fourth, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Second and third?
MS. LAMP: And through the next week.
THE COURT: But you’re gone July second and third?
MS. LAMP: No, no. I’m here on the second and third and I can arrange for coverage those days if need be.
THE COURT: Mike?
MR. DUNGAN: Your Honor, the second is good for me. I have a matter at two o’clock on July third with Judge Grant. But if need be, he’d probably move that to three thirty, four o’clock if need be. It’s a rather short matter.
THE COURT: That’s on Tuesday.
MR. DUNGAN: Yes. And I think he just kind of picked that time out of thin air. I believe he would move that if we needed him to.
THE COURT: These two folks, what will be the nature of their testimony, Mike?
MR. DUNGAN: Your Honor, the nature of their testimony would be they’re the first horse rescue team before Leelanau that was called in to look at the farm and the horses, and I anticipate that they’ll testify to their observations at that time and it will be lengthy I would suspect.
THE COURT: Okay. Are your officers good on the twentieth?
MS. LAMP: They’re available on the twentieth, Your Honor.
THE COURT: July second in the afternoon at one? Do you want Officer Dunlap available?
MS. LAMP: Well, you now, Your Honor, if Mr. Dungan’s going to finish up that testimony, if I need some rebuttal maybe the court would humor me if I needed to reschedule at a later time.
THE COURT: No, yeah, sure.
MS. LAMP: So I think that as long as Officer Wheaton would be available for the…
THE COURT: I will not exclude additional testimony after he’s done, no, not in any way.
MS. LAMP: Okay.
THE COURT: So are you saying then that the second would be okay with you?
MS. LAMP: Absolutely.
THE COURT: Do you think we’ll be able to do those two folks that Monday?
MR. DUNGAN: I’m just asking just in case.
THE COURT: Well, we’ll have to, if Jennifer needs rebuttal we’ll need to either use the rest of that day or the third, afternoon of the third.
MR. DUNGAN: Judge, I just have one matter I need to bring to the court’s attention regarding Mr. Henderson when the court’s ready for that.
THE COURT: Yeah, we could do the third subject to Judge Grant.
MR. DUNGAN: Sure. And I’ll talk to him about that immediately.
THE COURT: Okay. We’ve got the notices for you. And do you still want me to hang on to these exhibits? MR. DUNGAN: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And the matter, Mr. Dungan?
MR.
DUNGAN: Your Honor, in regard to Mr.
Henderson, the court may be aware, he’s got employment as a domestic violence
probation officer in Ann Arbor and he’s also a consultant with domestic
violence training matters where he does travel all over the country presenting
at various seminars. And the only thing
that we’re asking the court to do is simply amend the conditions of his bond to
allow him to leave the state of
THE COURT: Documentation?
MR. DUNGAN: You know, the dates, the times, documentation.
THE COURT: Does he have any coming up?
MR.
DUNGAN: June twenty-fourth through the
twenty-eighth in
THE COURT: Miss Lamp, any comment on that? For those reasons only, documented?
MS. LAMP: No, I have no comment on that, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. That’s allowed, Mr. Dungan. Do you have documentation of that?
MR. DUNGAN: Right here. I’ll make a copy for the court before we leave.
THE COURT: And Miss Lamp.
MR. DUNGAN: Sure.
THE COURT: You’re an officer of the court, Mr. Dungan, I know you well. Both of you are of the highest integrity so I can take your word on that.
MR. DUNGAN: Thank you. You scared me this morning with all this jail talk.
THE COURT: Well, we have to have light moments, don’t we?
MS. LAMP: Your Honor, may we approach?
THE COURT: Sure.
(At 1:46 p.m. conference at bench between
court and counsel; off the record)
MR. DUNGAN: Didn’t you get printed?
MR. MERCIER: No, not yet. I forgot all about it.
THE COURT: Have a seat over there. Have a seat right over there, Mr. Mercier. We’ll make sure you get printed. Just have a seat right over there. The officer will take you over to the jail. Just have a seat right there.
MR. MERCIER: okay.
THE COURT: We’ll take care of that. I assume Mr. Henderson has been?
MR. HENDRESON: I have been. The court messed up his paper work.
MR. MERCIER: Yeah, when I first went over there I had the wrong paper work.
THE COURT: Mr. Dungan, he knew where to go. Sit right there, we’ll get you over there. We’ll get that taken care of. Thank you, Miss Lamp, for bringing that to our attention. I thought he had been printed. Okay. Good job, guys, I appreciate it very much.
(At 1:46 p.m. proceedings concluded)